The helicopter parents won - a look back

[Anonymous]

I think in 20 years we'll see that these "top" colleges are ruined by the cadre of fraudulent marionette students they admitted, and employers and investors will seek out state college grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are defining college admission as the "end game." Check back when your kid and their peers are 30 - or 40. It really is a marathon and the end is nowhere near age 18.

College admission is not success or a result. Your child is a whole person who should have a chance to grow and pursue their interests and be happy and a good person. Not be pushed or forced to achieve a result. What a sad conclusion you have drawn about your child, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an extremely involved parent but I do not consider myself a helicopter parent. I have 3 kids so my time is limited for each kid. At the same time, we demand academic excellence. I let my kids try many different sports and activities and let them choose what they want and we support them as we see fit.

DH and I are well educated, attended top colleges and ivy grad schools. We hope and expect our kids will follow in our footsteps.

Major red flag. Recipe for mental illness, on top of being an ignorant idea.

+1 This is a terrible road to start down, take the very next divergent path you come to!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, OP, a lot of this is child-driven. If a child is going to thrive in high-level sports or math or music or whatever, they have to want it. And the parents have to want it too-- but really talented kids will strongly advocate for being allowed to do the activities. It's not happening because the parents are helicoptering and make the kids do it. It's happening because the kid has the talent and the willingness to work hard, and the parents are willing to do their part. A kid like this will be really, really sad and upset if they don't get to do their thing. Absolutely crushed and disappointed, and will complain constantly and stick out in low-level substitute activities like a sore thumb, and it will not be a good feeling for anyone involved. If your kids weren't advocating for themselves, you have your answer.

The parents do have to do research and have a little foresight to tee up opportunities that their kid isn't aware of. Choosing a school, understanding math sequences, options for supplementing, whatever it may be. But I think "helicopter parent" means you're constantly hovering and micromanaging and controlling the kid. That's really not what this is.

This is not true. There are so many kids who are performing at a top level out of fear of failure and their need for the love and approval of their parents. Parents who made them feel that their love and approval was contingent on their child’s academic performance and/or their ability to excel at whatever extracurricular activity that the parents chose to prioritize.

Yes this was me. I went to Harvard. College was great and opened doors - I love my career.

I am not treating my kids the same way. I want them to have a great childhood. We are very low key even in a high pressure area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a marathon op. I know Harvard grads who became associate professors. I know Yale students who dropped out 20 years ago and never went back. I know state schools students who founded tech companies. I know Ivy League grads who never married or had kids.

What does this mean? What's wrong with a tenure-track job in academia? Those are prestigious and hard to get and a top school is a big help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in 20 years we'll see that these "top" colleges are ruined by the cadre of fraudulent marionette students they admitted, and employers and investors will seek out state college grads.

Hear, hear!

Fraudulent marionette students is an extraordinary phrase

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indians have it down to a science

Lol no....we struggle as much as rest of the parents, I have regrets that mine are not very athletic, I wish they were. Now true to the stereotype, yes, my kids have had math tutors since 4th grade and they excel in math but there are other challenges that they experience. However, I do believe that a good amount of parental involvement can take a kid from average to above average, we don't believe that a child will only achieve what he/she can based on their abilities, we believe that by providing lots of external support we can easily take them up a level or two and that's why we continue to push.

For example, my daughter was an average student in math until 3rd grade, she started feeling that that's all she can achieve in math. Since grade 4, she has had a private tutor and tons of practice + hard work, in middle school now she is in algebra. Was she one of those kids who are math wizards? Not at all. By guiding, tutoring and putting in the time she is where she is currently. Will this make a difference in her life or college admissions? I don't know, we can only work hard and put in the effort everyday and let the chips fall where they may.

Although, the best thing I have learnt from american parenting culture is to aim for a balance, so I push them so that they develop good work habits, so that they can learn to work hard but not only in the pursuit of grades.

What's she going to do in high school when she doesn't have time for tons of practice and hard work to stay afloat, because she's busy with many other classes?

She will find time. Also, with each passing year her confidence and capability in math has improved tremendously, of course she will still continue with private tutoring.Working with a tutor and practicing more has also trained her brain to work quicker because now she understands the concepts better.

[Anonymous]

My experience has been the opposite of OP’s. The pushy parents eventually got rebellion. My child is at a top college, well adjusted, and not resentful of me for breathing down his neck.

[Anonymous]

parents who push kids want something to brag about. That's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents have no idea what other competitive parents are doing, largely because the extra benefits are kept secret. For example: at my kid’s school, the highest readers in Kindergarten are pulled out to read with 1st graders. It is only five kids and the other parents don’t know about it. That group of children invariably test the highest in math, so they are eligible for math team, and then compact math in middle school. All it takes is a little extra reading and math early on (like preschool) and they get all these extra benefits long term.

Your assumption is that these kids excel at reading and math only because they were given outside help. Some kids are actually just more intelligent than others, and they receive pull out instruction because it is appropriate for their level of ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a marathon op. I know Harvard grads who became associate professors. I know Yale students who dropped out 20 years ago and never went back. I know state schools students who founded tech companies. I know Ivy League grads who never married or had kids.

What does this mean? What's wrong with a tenure-track job in academia? Those are prestigious and hard to get and a top school is a big help!

That poster probably doesn't understand the tenure track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you don’t have enough perspective on this yet. From where you sit getting into a great college is the end goal. But it’s not really.

Once all these kids are 30, come back and tell us which are happiest and most productive in something that matters.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents have no idea what other competitive parents are doing, largely because the extra benefits are kept secret. For example: at my kid’s school, the highest readers in Kindergarten are pulled out to read with 1st graders. It is only five kids and the other parents don’t know about it. That group of children invariably test the highest in math, so they are eligible for math team, and then compact math in middle school. All it takes is a little extra reading and math early on (like preschool) and they get all these extra benefits long term.

Your assumption is that these kids excel at reading and math only because they were given outside help. Some kids are actually just more intelligent than others, and they receive pull out instruction because it is appropriate for their level of ability.

I don’t doubt that these children are smarter than average, but the common factor besides intelligence is parents who accelerate their learning. It is fact that a bright 4 year old will learn how to read at a 2nd grade level by Kindergarten and a few parents have figured that out. Those children are then placed in groups with other high-performing children, which snowballs their academic success a lot further than elementary school. A lot of what adults see as “intelligence” is actually early preparation. And a lot of doors open for children who excel early, and it compounds their success just like any investment. Many parents (especially white parents) don’t get this intuitively, but most Asians do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sending my youngest to college next year. He got into a good school early addmission and all of my kids did well. But as I look back on this parenting experience it occurs to me that the kids with the fanaticaly involved parents did the best - academically and athletically.

When the kids were in early elementary school, I remember shaking my head as my fellow parents talked about advanced math tutoring for their kindergartener or plotting to get their second grader on the most competitive travel team. At the time it seemed so silly to chart out the life of a kid who still needed naps. [b]However, looking at those kids now - those are the kids who are going on to play sports at top colleges.

My takeaway is that even if you are a committed free range parent - your kid is in a competitive environment competing for scarce opportunities to go to top schools and play for competitive school teams.

I’m not unhappy about how my kids turned out or their experience in high School. But I don’t think I realized the the decision not to push advanced math in grade school meant a diminished opportunity to go to Tech or UMD. I definitely didn’t realize that only doing town baseball (and not travel) meant that they wouldn’t make the highschool team.

It not like my kids were slouches. They played on at least one rec team every season. Swim team in the summer and got good grades and scores on standardized tests.

But I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve pushed harder our results would’ve been much better.

I mean, it's a little odd that you regard that as an envious accomplishment. I wouldn't wish that for my children in a million years. Being a college athlete would suck. The team owns you. It wouldn't be an authentic college experience. And, with the exception of a slice of football and basketball players, there's no meaningful career to go into in the sport afterwards.

Same for pushing math and STEM artificially. I mean, if your kid has natural aptitude, by all means, challenge them. But trying to engineer it or force a love for it in a kid who is inclined in the humanities is silly. And the joke's on them -- STEM careers aren't future proof and we're in the process of seeing a massive shakeout of disruption. On the flip side, kids with liberal arts degrees are going to be super high demand by employers, including tech employers, in the coming decades.

So, I'm with #teamadequateparenting. You got them launched. You did your job. Don't compare -- they may have gotten what they wanted, but it was likely a Faustian bargain.

Don’t listen to this person, don’t know if they work in tech or anywhere at all.

Hard skills are more than required in the real world now. Coasting by on your presentation or gift of the gab skills is useless nowadays, it needs to be backed up by something very solid.

[Anonymous]

I parented in the same way as op, and sometimes I wonder if we could have done more to propel them forward. But at other times I am happy that they have done ok, if not great, and are happy, friendly and funny young adults. God knows there are worse outcomes…