It gets harder and harder to return to the U.S. after every trip.

[Anonymous]

I don't think everyone is meant to live in the nation they are born into. If you find yourself absolutely disgusted by the US, it makes a lot of sense to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When you have to come back to horribly inferior food quality, obscene prices for everything and sooooooo much crime. It’s amazing when you can travel to a major city in the world and see ZERO gun deaths for literally days and weeks on end. There’s better public infrastructure that embarrasses the U.S., things are a lot more walkable, healthcare is way more afford, and things just work. Man, it gets harder and harder to return after every trip abroad. The only thing worth retuning for are the salaries and that’s about it.

I agree with you on healthcare, college, infrastructure and gun safety…the prices doesn’t really make sense. Maybe Thailand, Malaysia are what you are referring? I guess prices are low and while it’s not national healthcare…out of pocket and insurance is very low.

Europe, clearly you pay through the nose for gas, groceries, booze, etc…but that does fund the other social benefits.

Even in Japan, dining out is cheap for the Japanese earning Japanese yen. We literally stayed at our friend’s house there and talked about it. Yes, sure, you can spend a lot on elite dining in Tokyo, but there are soooooooooo many cheap to middle level options fir dining that are out of this world and way more affordable even by Japanese standards. And no tipping. The food quality at the grocery stores in all of those countries is superior, which is inexcusable given that the U.S. has vastly more room to grow food than an island nation like Japan. The quality of fruits in Thailand blows anything out of the water in the U.S., and you can buy like 2 kg of oranges for about $3, which is cheap even by Thai standards.


We also needed an ER visit in Thailand for a broken wrist. The wait time was less than 30 minutes. X-rays, cast, medication and a follow up visit: grand total of $314. And that was completely out of pocket with zero insurance. So, soooooo much better than getting bankrupted for HC in the US even when you have insurance.

Yes, but you are mixing and matching. I get that Thailand is cheap, but the infrastructure is not the same as SK, Japan or Singapore.

I have no idea on out of pocket healthcare in SK or Japan or Singapore. Is it cheap?

You have to admit though that people are fundamentally unhappy about something in the Asian systems when it comes to children. Birthrates are nonexistent and women are always complaining about the inequality they face.

The fertility rate gap vanishes if you adjust for bastard rate for the most part

Having kids out of wedlock is very taboo in Asia

American tfr is 1.6/1.7 but if it had Asian levels of illegitimacy, it would crash down to 1.2/1.3 - similar to Japan

Ok, except you are claiming that life is so great in Asian countries. If that was the case, wouldn’t their birth rates be much higher?

It’s fine as a visitor, but actually being a native is much different. Wages are so low in Japan that a medical professional in Japan can make more as a waitress/waiter in Australia.

Life is so stressful in SK that parents are suing the proctor of an 11th grade exam for ending an 8 hour test 1 minute early. That test basically determines your life and kids starting in 8th grade go to normal school followed by 8 hours of cram school.

I mean the moral of your story is get rich in the US and then move. I get it.

My spouse is a dual citizen, and we are thinking exactly this.

Please leave sooner rather than later and absolutely renounce your US citizenship for yourself and your children. This way you can't come running back to to US safety when whatever county you move to is invaded by Russia.

eh.. Russia compromised a POTUS (Trump) and many of our country's leaders (Graham).

But, I guess you agree that Russia is trying to invade other countries, and Putin is a dictator. Makes you wonder why Trump likes Putin so much.

Oh, and I don't have to renounce my citizenship. There's this great thing called "dual citizenship". My kids also have dual citizenship.

Do you really think your kids having shooter drills and lockdowns is a normal part of childhood? I guess it is now in the US. Sad that we've normalized this.

Trump told EU leaders he wouldn't honor NATO obligations or lift a finger to help Europe if Russia were to invade them.

https://www.reuters.com/world/we-will-never-help-europe-under-attack-eu-official-cites-trump-saying-2024-01-10/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think everyone is meant to live in the nation they are born into. If you find yourself absolutely disgusted by the US, it makes a lot of sense to leave.

DP... Speaking for myself, I'd prefer you be the one to leave. Some of us have traveled enough and read enough and learned enough about how things can work better, such that we'd like to see the US make the same changes. You on the other hand seem ignorantly content with broken healthcare, school shootings and everything else and think it's somehow "normal" or acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have to come back to horribly inferior food quality, obscene prices for everything and sooooooo much crime. It’s amazing when you can travel to a major city in the world and see ZERO gun deaths for literally days and weeks on end. There’s better public infrastructure that embarrasses the U.S., things are a lot more walkable, healthcare is way more afford, and things just work. Man, it gets harder and harder to return after every trip abroad. The only thing worth retuning for are the salaries and that’s about it.

I agree with you on healthcare, college, infrastructure and gun safety…the prices doesn’t really make sense. Maybe Thailand, Malaysia are what you are referring? I guess prices are low and while it’s not national healthcare…out of pocket and insurance is very low.

Europe, clearly you pay through the nose for gas, groceries, booze, etc…but that does fund the other social benefits.

Even in Japan, dining out is cheap for the Japanese earning Japanese yen. We literally stayed at our friend’s house there and talked about it. Yes, sure, you can spend a lot on elite dining in Tokyo, but there are soooooooooo many cheap to middle level options fir dining that are out of this world and way more affordable even by Japanese standards. And no tipping. The food quality at the grocery stores in all of those countries is superior, which is inexcusable given that the U.S. has vastly more room to grow food than an island nation like Japan. The quality of fruits in Thailand blows anything out of the water in the U.S., and you can buy like 2 kg of oranges for about $3, which is cheap even by Thai standards.


We also needed an ER visit in Thailand for a broken wrist. The wait time was less than 30 minutes. X-rays, cast, medication and a follow up visit: grand total of $314. And that was completely out of pocket with zero insurance. So, soooooo much better than getting bankrupted for HC in the US even when you have insurance.

Yes, but you are mixing and matching. I get that Thailand is cheap, but the infrastructure is not the same as SK, Japan or Singapore.

I have no idea on out of pocket healthcare in SK or Japan or Singapore. Is it cheap?

You have to admit though that people are fundamentally unhappy about something in the Asian systems when it comes to children. Birthrates are nonexistent and women are always complaining about the inequality they face.

The fertility rate gap vanishes if you adjust for bastard rate for the most part

Having kids out of wedlock is very taboo in Asia

American tfr is 1.6/1.7 but if it had Asian levels of illegitimacy, it would crash down to 1.2/1.3 - similar to Japan

Ok, except you are claiming that life is so great in Asian countries. If that was the case, wouldn’t their birth rates be much higher?

It’s fine as a visitor, but actually being a native is much different. Wages are so low in Japan that a medical professional in Japan can make more as a waitress/waiter in Australia.

Life is so stressful in SK that parents are suing the proctor of an 11th grade exam for ending an 8 hour test 1 minute early. That test basically determines your life and kids starting in 8th grade go to normal school followed by 8 hours of cram school.

I mean the moral of your story is get rich in the US and then move. I get it.

My spouse is a dual citizen, and we are thinking exactly this.

Please leave sooner rather than later and absolutely renounce your US citizenship for yourself and your children. This way you can't come running back to to US safety when whatever county you move to is invaded by Russia.

eh.. Russia compromised a POTUS (Trump) and many of our country's leaders (Graham).

But, I guess you agree that Russia is trying to invade other countries, and Putin is a dictator. Makes you wonder why Trump likes Putin so much.

Oh, and I don't have to renounce my citizenship. There's this great thing called "dual citizenship". My kids also have dual citizenship.

Do you really think your kids having shooter drills and lockdowns is a normal part of childhood? I guess it is now in the US. Sad that we've normalized this.

You are free to renounce your US Citizenship and move back to your other country. Dual citizenship does not mean that you are forced to keep citizenship in a country you hate.

I would, bet, however that you only express your loathing and disgust with the US on an anonymous chat room. Coward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

Because, as. US citizen, who worked at the IMF, hit fed up with people coming to this country and enjoying all its freedoms, their tax free salaries, free one and two months vacations to their home countries every year or every two years.

I lived in three different European countries and never complained to a citizen of that country about anything I didn't like. If the US is so bad then why us there a border problem with thousands trying to get into the US every day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

Because, as. US citizen, who worked at the IMF, hit fed up with people coming to this country and enjoying all its freedoms, their tax free salaries, free one and two months vacations to their home countries every year or every two years.

I lived in three different European countries and never complained to a citizen of that country about anything I didn't like. If the US is so bad then why us there a border problem with thousands trying to get into the US every day!

This is such a dumb argument. People from 3rd world countries would still prefer to migrate to 2nd world countries like the US. That still doesn't mean the US isn't a 2nd world country though that is far eclipsed by other countries in the planet in terms of education quality, crime and gun violence, infrastructure and healthcare cost.

It's truly remarkable Americans have no idea how terrible their infrastructure is compared to other first world nations that are like 50+ years ahead at this point. But at least we have trillions for Boeing/Lockheed/etc. to build death and bomb other people into democracy and freedom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think everyone is meant to live in the nation they are born into. If you find yourself absolutely disgusted by the US, it makes a lot of sense to leave.

DP... Speaking for myself, I'd prefer you be the one to leave. Some of us have traveled enough and read enough and learned enough about how things can work better, such that we'd like to see the US make the same changes. You on the other hand seem ignorantly content with broken healthcare, school shootings and everything else and think it's somehow "normal" or acceptable.

This was my only contribution to the thread, and you read a lot into it. Even if I left (which is a much more plausible scenario for me than for most Americans given that I can easily move to the EU), these problems would still exist. If OP wants everyone else to leave the US, they should say that. But looking around a country and deciding its not for you is a normal human experience. America is currently experiencing record immigration, so obviously many people find something to like about it. If you don't, that's okay too. There are hundreds of other nations to choose from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

Because, as. US citizen, who worked at the IMF, hit fed up with people coming to this country and enjoying all its freedoms, their tax free salaries, free one and two months vacations to their home countries every year or every two years.

I lived in three different European countries and never complained to a citizen of that country about anything I didn't like. If the US is so bad then why us there a border problem with thousands trying to get into the US every day!

Your disdain for people at the IMF sounds like a you problem. Most people in the world don't have jobs like that.

And the US is not the only country besieged by migrants. Try talking to some Southern Europeans who are at the front lines of illegal migration within Europe. Political upheaval, poverty, and the cumulative effects of global warming are going to continue fueling migration around the world. There is no quick fix for it.

[Anonymous]

I hear you, OP. We were a foreign service family and it was always a little jarring to return to the states after being away for a while — particularly with regard to gun violence. When we lived overseas — and we lived in the Middle East during the Arab Spring — we NEVER had to worry about gun violence in schools. Child care was ridiculously inexpensive, as was internet/phone. That said, there were other things about where we lived that I wish Americans could see that were not so great, as it might give them a better understanding as to why it’s good to have a certain level of regulation — namely, pollution (water, air).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

There are many things to improve here. But OP didn't say that when she returns, she sees things to improve (as well as things to appreciate), she said she wants to leave permanently for somewhere, anywhere, else.

Fine. Then go. We'll be here, working on the improvements, while she takes the money she has earned here and enjoys it somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

There are many things to improve here. But OP didn't say that when she returns, she sees things to improve (as well as things to appreciate), she said she wants to leave permanently for somewhere, anywhere, else.

Fine. Then go. We'll be here, working on the improvements, while she takes the money she has earned here and enjoys it somewhere else.

How exactly do you improve things in the U.S. when corporations own the govt? Citizens United, hello?


Look at Boeing. They killed hundreds of people due to manufacturing quality control issues. Many insiders blew whistles. And yet they continue to operate and now a door blew out. Just yet another example of how corporations run the U.S. govt, no one ever goes to jail for corporate crimes, and nothing changes.


You think the U.S. will ever improve their infrastructure, healthcare, and gun violence when the automobile lobby, insurance lobby, and gun lobby run the govt? lol, what a lost cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think everyone is meant to live in the nation they are born into. If you find yourself absolutely disgusted by the US, it makes a lot of sense to leave.

DP... Speaking for myself, I'd prefer you be the one to leave. Some of us have traveled enough and read enough and learned enough about how things can work better, such that we'd like to see the US make the same changes. You on the other hand seem ignorantly content with broken healthcare, school shootings and everything else and think it's somehow "normal" or acceptable.

AMEN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

Because, as. US citizen, who worked at the IMF, hit fed up with people coming to this country and enjoying all its freedoms, their tax free salaries, free one and two months vacations to their home countries every year or every two years.

I lived in three different European countries and never complained to a citizen of that country about anything I didn't like. If the US is so bad then why us there a border problem with thousands trying to get into the US every day!

Wow. I thought the requirements to work for the IMF included intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are some of you so triggered by someone questioning the direction their country is going in? I have dual citizenship in an EU country, and people there openly criticize their government and want to see certain things improve. I have never once heard anyone tell them to leave if they don't like it. Shouldn't we all strive to make the country we live in a better place?

There are many things to improve here. But OP didn't say that when she returns, she sees things to improve (as well as things to appreciate), she said she wants to leave permanently for somewhere, anywhere, else.

Fine. Then go. We'll be here, working on the improvements, while she takes the money she has earned here and enjoys it somewhere else.

How exactly do you improve things in the U.S. when corporations own the govt? Citizens United, hello?


Look at Boeing. They killed hundreds of people due to manufacturing quality control issues. Many insiders blew whistles. And yet they continue to operate and now a door blew out. Just yet another example of how corporations run the U.S. govt, no one ever goes to jail for corporate crimes, and nothing changes.


You think the U.S. will ever improve their infrastructure, healthcare, and gun violence when the automobile lobby, insurance lobby, and gun lobby run the govt? lol, what a lost cause.

Totally agree. People don’t realize the havoc the citizens united decision caused in this country. This country is run solely by corporations now and politicians don’t care about domestic issues. It’s all about corporate interests and profits because that is what funds their campaigns. I think even in 2008 when Obama won there was some hope for this country but ever since that dreadful scotus decision, things have been going downhill with absolutely no signs of improving. Everything is a mess and the people are suffering. The rich keep getting richer and the middle class is getting crushed. Our children truly have no future in this country especially our girls.