Post-winter break fight at B-CC warrants comment from Jawando?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ the BCC/WJ fights have been happening for YEARS.

Our kids went to WJ (now college graduates), but there were bad fights at/after their games as well. You are naive if you think it was assaults and that it was a one-way or one-time thing

It sounds like you are not aware of the specific facts here so you should just sit down. This was discussed extensively by the families involved. It was not a figh, it was an assault. That’s based on the specific facts of this instance — I’m sure there have been fights in the past.

No, it was a fight, just like in past years (according to my WJ grads who are still in touch with students currently at the school). Only difference this time? Black kids caught on camera beating up white kids

Here is the quiet part out loud, it is always this scenario. I have yet to see any fight that involved white kids assaulting black ones in MCPS. It is purely a one way street and gets brushed under the rug and excused as systemic racism or something.

This quiet part needs to be said out loud a lot more.

The vast majority of black and hispanic kids are not violent criminals. I repeat, they are not violent criminals. But the vast majority of kids doing these violent crimes do seem to be black or hispanic.

Please prove me wrong - show me pictures of white kids in the DMV who are doing armed carjacks. Please tell me about white or asian high school students who are moved around from high school to high school and must wear an ankle monitor.

What can MCPS do? It's too late by the time these kids reach high school. I'd argue that it's getting too late by the time these kids reach kindergarten. How can MCPS solve that?

But is talking about race useful? I think people should not confuse race with economics. We can ignore race, and just focus on poverty, which is what gives rise to crime. Black and Hispanic families are significantly poorer than their White or Asian counterparts. There is generational poverty in some areas, associated with gang turfs and single motherhood, since these young men can't stick around to parent their kids. The common denominator is poverty, not anything else. Yes, poverty among non-whites has roots in racial discrimination and segregation. But discussing that won't help us treat the current problem. It may help us improve quality of life for future generations, but not this generation.

There is no definitive answer to poverty, BTW. I come from a European country with a very robust social safety net, and we still have gang-infested, crime-ridden areas with lots of single mothers raising angry, violent kids. Maybe we don't have as bad of a situation as in some places in America (and obviously, not such a dire problem with guns!), but youth violence is a concern.

I don't know what the answer is, but as a first response, definitely don't accept repeat offenders in mainstream schools. The peaceful students and adult staff deserve to feel safe.

It’s interesting; they’ve done studies of crime in families who were poor but who won money in the lottery. There was no relationship to household income and crime for both the parents and the children over time. People always say that being poor causes people to be criminals, but it’s certainly possible that the same characteristics that lead someone to be poor also lead them to commit crimes; Low IQ, poor future orientation and lack of impulse control.

There’s a lot of data from military enlistment testing and the NLSY study; Poor people with high scores on aptitude tests are very likely to move out of poverty. Interestingly, there was no difference between races. I.e. a poor black kid with a high score on an aptitude test was no less likely to move out of poverty than a poor white kid was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ the BCC/WJ fights have been happening for YEARS.

Our kids went to WJ (now college graduates), but there were bad fights at/after their games as well. You are naive if you think it was assaults and that it was a one-way or one-time thing

It sounds like you are not aware of the specific facts here so you should just sit down. This was discussed extensively by the families involved. It was not a figh, it was an assault. That’s based on the specific facts of this instance — I’m sure there have been fights in the past.

No, it was a fight, just like in past years (according to my WJ grads who are still in touch with students currently at the school). Only difference this time? Black kids caught on camera beating up white kids

Here is the quiet part out loud, it is always this scenario. I have yet to see any fight that involved white kids assaulting black ones in MCPS. It is purely a one way street and gets brushed under the rug and excused as systemic racism or something.

This quiet part needs to be said out loud a lot more.

The vast majority of black and hispanic kids are not violent criminals. I repeat, they are not violent criminals. But the vast majority of kids doing these violent crimes do seem to be black or hispanic.

Please prove me wrong - show me pictures of white kids in the DMV who are doing armed carjacks. Please tell me about white or asian high school students who are moved around from high school to high school and must wear an ankle monitor.

What can MCPS do? It's too late by the time these kids reach high school. I'd argue that it's getting too late by the time these kids reach kindergarten. How can MCPS solve that?

But is talking about race useful? I think people should not confuse race with economics. We can ignore race, and just focus on poverty, which is what gives rise to crime. Black and Hispanic families are significantly poorer than their White or Asian counterparts. There is generational poverty in some areas, associated with gang turfs and single motherhood, since these young men can't stick around to parent their kids. The common denominator is poverty, not anything else. Yes, poverty among non-whites has roots in racial discrimination and segregation. But discussing that won't help us treat the current problem. It may help us improve quality of life for future generations, but not this generation.

There is no definitive answer to poverty, BTW. I come from a European country with a very robust social safety net, and we still have gang-infested, crime-ridden areas with lots of single mothers raising angry, violent kids. Maybe we don't have as bad of a situation as in some places in America (and obviously, not such a dire problem with guns!), but youth violence is a concern.

I don't know what the answer is, but as a first response, definitely don't accept repeat offenders in mainstream schools. The peaceful students and adult staff deserve to feel safe.

There is a lot of evidence that racial disparities are truly racial disparities - rich Black students are impacted, not just poor ones.

Here's a recent one: https://eji.org/news/study-rich-black-kids-more-likely-incarcerated-than-poor-white-kids/

"Researchers analyzed data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, which gathered data between 1979 and 2012 from nearly 13,000 young men and women. They found that wealthy Black kids were more likely to go to prison than poor white kids. While about 2.7 percent of the poorest white youth ended up in prison, 10 percent of affluent Black youths ultimately went to prison."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ the BCC/WJ fights have been happening for YEARS.

Our kids went to WJ (now college graduates), but there were bad fights at/after their games as well. You are naive if you think it was assaults and that it was a one-way or one-time thing

It sounds like you are not aware of the specific facts here so you should just sit down. This was discussed extensively by the families involved. It was not a figh, it was an assault. That’s based on the specific facts of this instance — I’m sure there have been fights in the past.

No, it was a fight, just like in past years (according to my WJ grads who are still in touch with students currently at the school). Only difference this time? Black kids caught on camera beating up white kids

Here is the quiet part out loud, it is always this scenario. I have yet to see any fight that involved white kids assaulting black ones in MCPS. It is purely a one way street and gets brushed under the rug and excused as systemic racism or something.

This quiet part needs to be said out loud a lot more.

The vast majority of black and hispanic kids are not violent criminals. I repeat, they are not violent criminals. But the vast majority of kids doing these violent crimes do seem to be black or hispanic.

Please prove me wrong - show me pictures of white kids in the DMV who are doing armed carjacks. Please tell me about white or asian high school students who are moved around from high school to high school and must wear an ankle monitor.

What can MCPS do? It's too late by the time these kids reach high school. I'd argue that it's getting too late by the time these kids reach kindergarten. How can MCPS solve that?

But is talking about race useful? I think people should not confuse race with economics. We can ignore race, and just focus on poverty, which is what gives rise to crime. Black and Hispanic families are significantly poorer than their White or Asian counterparts. There is generational poverty in some areas, associated with gang turfs and single motherhood, since these young men can't stick around to parent their kids. The common denominator is poverty, not anything else. Yes, poverty among non-whites has roots in racial discrimination and segregation. But discussing that won't help us treat the current problem. It may help us improve quality of life for future generations, but not this generation.

There is no definitive answer to poverty, BTW. I come from a European country with a very robust social safety net, and we still have gang-infested, crime-ridden areas with lots of single mothers raising angry, violent kids. Maybe we don't have as bad of a situation as in some places in America (and obviously, not such a dire problem with guns!), but youth violence is a concern.

I don't know what the answer is, but as a first response, definitely don't accept repeat offenders in mainstream schools. The peaceful students and adult staff deserve to feel safe.

It’s interesting; they’ve done studies of crime in families who were poor but who won money in the lottery. There was no relationship to household income and crime for both the parents and the children over time. People always say that being poor causes people to be criminals, but it’s certainly possible that the same characteristics that lead someone to be poor also lead them to commit crimes; Low IQ, poor future orientation and lack of impulse control.

There’s a lot of data from military enlistment testing and the NLSY study; Poor people with high scores on aptitude tests are very likely to move out of poverty. Interestingly, there was no difference between races. I.e. a poor black kid with a high score on an aptitude test was no less likely to move out of poverty than a poor white kid was.

Are you saying Black men end up in prison at disproportionate rates because they have low IQ, poor future orientation and lack of impulse control? Just say that if that is what you mean and defend it.

[Anonymous]

I hope other local media outlets report out on the details that Moderately Moco fleshed out about the B-CC fight.

Nicole Asbury/WaPo, please get on it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope other local media outlets report out on the details that Moderately Moco fleshed out about the B-CC fight.

Nicole Asbury/WaPo, please get on it!

+1

If the ankle monitor student was indeed the same one who assaulted the principal, then did the principal what him in the school or was he not allowed to transfer him to a different school. Why can’t they expel these students?

[Anonymous]

Does this kind of stuff happen at Whitman and Churchill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this posted. If accurate, this was a serious fight involving students with prior serious issues.

“In this fight, the principal was knocked to the ground. The head of security was too and was pinned against the wall. He’s pretty seriously injured. Unknown when/if he will return to school.

It’s three kids in the fight, one is notorious for starting fights in and around school and never attending class. He severely beat a football player last year on a sidewalk by the school - sent the player to the hospital.

Another with an ankle monitor has been expelled from Clarksburg, Whitman, and Blair - where he found the principal’s home address and threatened her daughter. The suspension for the students ends Monday, when they will be back.

Lots of threats of retaliation. Security is afraid, teachers are talking about leaving. It’s the backstory that no one is willing to talk about that makes this a big deal. 

Police couldn’t make it when 911 was called because they were at another emergency

Additionally, two BCC students are currently being held without bond for armed carjackings (they are 18); more than 10 have been arrested for carjacking related offenses this school year.

BCC kids were part of the looting of the Nike store on Bethesda Row. Then there was the fight after the WJ game.

Finally, a [b]BCC security team member was severely beaten two years ago. [b]A lot of violent crime issues. Not sure how this compares to other schools but a lot of issues and arrests in recent years.”

Wow. As the parent of an 8th grader at Westland, I'm a little shocked, I admit. I know MCPS has a strict policy of student privacy, but this seems like information that parents should get confirmed.

We need public schools to open special schools just for violent kids. They do not belong in normal classrooms.

Just want to be clear about the beating of the security guard - the student who hit the guard had previously been in the assistant principal's office asking for mental health help but was not given help and told to go back to class. Instead, he went and sat in a by himself in a hallway, where the security guard said something to him about his mom doesn't send him to school to sit in the hallway. This triggered the student to hit him. Yes, what the student did was inappropriate but so is what the school did. As a BCC parent, I have seen lots of inappropriate behavior from security guards, teachers and admin. They are often contributors to problems - not in all instances but definitely in some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this posted. If accurate, this was a serious fight involving students with prior serious issues.

“In this fight, the principal was knocked to the ground. The head of security was too and was pinned against the wall. He’s pretty seriously injured. Unknown when/if he will return to school.

It’s three kids in the fight, one is notorious for starting fights in and around school and never attending class. He severely beat a football player last year on a sidewalk by the school - sent the player to the hospital.

Another with an ankle monitor has been expelled from Clarksburg, Whitman, and Blair - where he found the principal’s home address and threatened her daughter. The suspension for the students ends Monday, when they will be back.

Lots of threats of retaliation. Security is afraid, teachers are talking about leaving. It’s the backstory that no one is willing to talk about that makes this a big deal. 

Police couldn’t make it when 911 was called because they were at another emergency

Additionally, two BCC students are currently being held without bond for armed carjackings (they are 18); more than 10 have been arrested for carjacking related offenses this school year.

BCC kids were part of the looting of the Nike store on Bethesda Row. Then there was the fight after the WJ game.

Finally, a [b]BCC security team member was severely beaten two years ago. [b]A lot of violent crime issues. Not sure how this compares to other schools but a lot of issues and arrests in recent years.”

Wow. As the parent of an 8th grader at Westland, I'm a little shocked, I admit. I know MCPS has a strict policy of student privacy, but this seems like information that parents should get confirmed.

We need public schools to open special schools just for violent kids. They do not belong in normal classrooms.

Just want to be clear about the beating of the security guard - the student who hit the guard had previously been in the assistant principal's office asking for mental health help but was not given help and told to go back to class. Instead, he went and sat in a by himself in a hallway, where the security guard said something to him about his mom doesn't send him to school to sit in the hallway. This triggered the student to hit him. Yes, what the student did was inappropriate but so is what the school did. As a BCC parent, I have seen lots of inappropriate behavior from security guards, teachers and admin. They are often contributors to problems - not in all instances but definitely in some.

What is so wrong with what the security guard said? Was the AP busy with something else? Is there any excuse to hit someone after 2nd grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does this kind of stuff happen at Whitman and Churchill?

Ankle bracelet kid was previously removed from Whitman for the same issues, so I think so.

As for Will Jawando, I think his comments are relevant as is his past support for removing SROs. Jawando, who was running for the United States Senate very recently, specifically talks about restorative justice in his statement about this case.

If there was ever a situation in which restorative justice was not the answer, it is for a situation where a court-involved youth who has already been kicked out of THREE MCPS high schools physically attacks school administrators and seriously injures one.

If Jawando doesn't see the need for actual consequences in this case, then it means he doesn't see the need for consequences in any case, ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this posted. If accurate, this was a serious fight involving students with prior serious issues.

“In this fight, the principal was knocked to the ground. The head of security was too and was pinned against the wall. He’s pretty seriously injured. Unknown when/if he will return to school.

It’s three kids in the fight, one is notorious for starting fights in and around school and never attending class. He severely beat a football player last year on a sidewalk by the school - sent the player to the hospital.

Another with an ankle monitor has been expelled from Clarksburg, Whitman, and Blair - where he found the principal’s home address and threatened her daughter. The suspension for the students ends Monday, when they will be back.

Lots of threats of retaliation. Security is afraid, teachers are talking about leaving. It’s the backstory that no one is willing to talk about that makes this a big deal. 

Police couldn’t make it when 911 was called because they were at another emergency

Additionally, two BCC students are currently being held without bond for armed carjackings (they are 18); more than 10 have been arrested for carjacking related offenses this school year.

BCC kids were part of the looting of the Nike store on Bethesda Row. Then there was the fight after the WJ game.

Finally, a [b]BCC security team member was severely beaten two years ago. [b]A lot of violent crime issues. Not sure how this compares to other schools but a lot of issues and arrests in recent years.”

Wow. As the parent of an 8th grader at Westland, I'm a little shocked, I admit. I know MCPS has a strict policy of student privacy, but this seems like information that parents should get confirmed.

We need public schools to open special schools just for violent kids. They do not belong in normal classrooms.

Just want to be clear about the beating of the security guard - the student who hit the guard had previously been in the assistant principal's office asking for mental health help but was not given help and told to go back to class. Instead, he went and sat in a by himself in a hallway, where the security guard said something to him about his mom doesn't send him to school to sit in the hallway. This triggered the student to hit him. Yes, what the student did was inappropriate but so is what the school did. As a BCC parent, I have seen lots of inappropriate behavior from security guards, teachers and admin. They are often contributors to problems - not in all instances but definitely in some.

Why was the student denied mental health help? Isn't that why we're investing millions in PPWs, School Psychologists and School Counselors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this posted. If accurate, this was a serious fight involving students with prior serious issues.

“In this fight, the principal was knocked to the ground. The head of security was too and was pinned against the wall. He’s pretty seriously injured. Unknown when/if he will return to school.

It’s three kids in the fight, one is notorious for starting fights in and around school and never attending class. He severely beat a football player last year on a sidewalk by the school - sent the player to the hospital.

Another with an ankle monitor has been expelled from Clarksburg, Whitman, and Blair - where he found the principal’s home address and threatened her daughter. The suspension for the students ends Monday, when they will be back.

Lots of threats of retaliation. Security is afraid, teachers are talking about leaving. It’s the backstory that no one is willing to talk about that makes this a big deal. 

Police couldn’t make it when 911 was called because they were at another emergency

Additionally, two BCC students are currently being held without bond for armed carjackings (they are 18); more than 10 have been arrested for carjacking related offenses this school year.

BCC kids were part of the looting of the Nike store on Bethesda Row. Then there was the fight after the WJ game.

Finally, a [b]BCC security team member was severely beaten two years ago. [b]A lot of violent crime issues. Not sure how this compares to other schools but a lot of issues and arrests in recent years.”

Wow. As the parent of an 8th grader at Westland, I'm a little shocked, I admit. I know MCPS has a strict policy of student privacy, but this seems like information that parents should get confirmed.

We need public schools to open special schools just for violent kids. They do not belong in normal classrooms.

Just want to be clear about the beating of the security guard - the student who hit the guard had previously been in the assistant principal's office asking for mental health help but was not given help and told to go back to class. Instead, he went and sat in a by himself in a hallway, where the security guard said something to him about his mom doesn't send him to school to sit in the hallway. This triggered the student to hit him. Yes, what the student did was inappropriate but so is what the school did. As a BCC parent, I have seen lots of inappropriate behavior from security guards, teachers and admin. They are often contributors to problems - not in all instances but definitely in some.

[The public defender has entered the chat room]