Fair division of household responsibilities vs. income

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

You must be hot as hell because this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. If any of this is true, your husband is simply catering to your completely irrational whims.

With a $3,300,000 income NEITHER of you should be saddled with any significant household chores.

Whatever time your husband is wasting doing menial chores that could easily be hired out he could be spending on far more productive activities. That doesn't have to be more hours of his current job. It could be developing intellectual property. It could be researching the stock market or real estate market if you are active investors. Or it could just be relaxing and reading books in his field or figuring out ways to improve his efficiency so he has to spend less time working. Or it could just be listening to classical music, camping, or whatever it is that makes him want to keep earning those kinds of bucks.

You could easily hire help at $50/hour to do all household chores.

Your husband assuming he works a 60 hour week 50 weeks a year grosses $1,000/hr. After taxes say $500/hr.

The same applies to you of course. For you working is entirely optional and you make a very good buck.

No one could make $3,000,000/yr or $300,000 /yr.and be this dumb.

This sounds like the worst life ever. He isn’t allowed to work for or care about anything not related to making money? Even his time relaxing is reading books in his field?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what the 'dh earns $3m' pp is not saying is that income is not salary. Virtually no one has a $3m salary. It's either that the dh is some kind of equity partner or is in tech where RSAs are in play or it's bonused or he has his own biz. All of which are not static and can easily fluctuate (no way has pp's dh made that income for more than 2-3y running) so the reality is that they aren't just saving bc they have 'ambitious retirement goals', they are saving and pp is still working bc the dh's income is not carved in stone. Our HHI is $750-$1m depending on year and we also do all our own chores for this reason. Once you are at high earning threshhold, until your net worth is at x and is x% liquid, you have to keep being frugal.

Yes this is accurate - we’re hoping for (at least) a few more years of current income and then we’ll have enough saved to make some life changes if we want, but can’t count on that by any means. So makes sense for me to keep working in the meantime, until the next several years play out. And during that time we’re still splitting household tasks more or less equally (obviously varies day by day but over the longer term things are pretty equal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

Your husband makes $3M a year and yet you are working as much as he does for $300k as an “insurance policy”? Do you have anxiety or something?

It's got to be fiction. No one with the chops to earn $3,000,000/ year is going to be so inefficient with their use of time that they would spend any significant amount of it on "household chores."

Are you not American? People don’t really have servants that wait on them like this in the US, no matter their income. It’s just not socially acceptable. Even billionaires do their own dishes and rake leaves.

Complete nonsense. You have no clue how financially comfortable people live.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You split it so everyone is working roughly the same, irrespective of earnings. I say that as the person who’s earned between 90 and 100 percent of the household income for many years. When I’m earning 100 percent of the income, as I am now, I don’t think I should get a pass in any household chores.

I am woman who has earned 100% most of the years since having kids. You better believe working all those hours gets me out of many household chores. My DH and children agree.

You earning 100% means your husband is a stay at home parent. Obviously he does the chores in that case, because that’s his job. This post is talking about two people who BOTH work outside the home for income. So your situation is completely irrelevant.

That bolded assertion is ridiculous. Tons of spouses who earn 100% routinely shop for groceries, cook breakfast/dinner, clean up after meals, read to children, put them to bed, mow the lawn, put up the storm windows, clean the gutters, change the oil, wash the car, rake the leaves, drive to sports, give kids baths, you name it.

That doesn’t mean that it’s bad for the 100% earner to relax after work while the spouse scurries around. The SAH spouse has plenty of down time while the WOH spouse is commuting/working, particularly with kids in school all day.

So dollar earnings should have zero to do with chore splits — it should be all about trying to provide adequate free time to each spouse and dividing tasks equally during waking hours not earning pay other than the adequate free time.

First, anything related to parenting the children is not a household chore (so putting the kids to bed or giving them a bath is something a parent does regardless of their employment status).

Second, many people with SAH spouses CHOOSE to do some of the other chores you listed in their free time, and that’s great. However, it does not make it a ridiculous assertion that the expectation is for the spouse whose job it is to take care of the home (by staying at home) is the spouse who is default responsible for those things.

What? Of course things related to parenting children are household chores. MOST of the chores are related to the children.

Everyone has chores. Only parents take care of/play with/interact with children.

Stop playing dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

Your husband makes $3M a year and yet you are working as much as he does for $300k as an “insurance policy”? Do you have anxiety or something?

It's got to be fiction. No one with the chops to earn $3,000,000/ year is going to be so inefficient with their use of time that they would spend any significant amount of it on "household chores."

Are you not American? People don’t really have servants that wait on them like this in the US, no matter their income. It’s just not socially acceptable. Even billionaires do their own dishes and rake leaves.

Complete nonsense. You have no clue how financially comfortable people live.

There is literally a billionaire living down the street from me out raking leaves this morning.

No one in the US has servants who clear their dishes after every meal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You split it so everyone is working roughly the same, irrespective of earnings. I say that as the person who’s earned between 90 and 100 percent of the household income for many years. When I’m earning 100 percent of the income, as I am now, I don’t think I should get a pass in any household chores.

I am woman who has earned 100% most of the years since having kids. You better believe working all those hours gets me out of many household chores. My DH and children agree.

You earning 100% means your husband is a stay at home parent. Obviously he does the chores in that case, because that’s his job. This post is talking about two people who BOTH work outside the home for income. So your situation is completely irrelevant.

That bolded assertion is ridiculous. Tons of spouses who earn 100% routinely shop for groceries, cook breakfast/dinner, clean up after meals, read to children, put them to bed, mow the lawn, put up the storm windows, clean the gutters, change the oil, wash the car, rake the leaves, drive to sports, give kids baths, you name it.

That doesn’t mean that it’s bad for the 100% earner to relax after work while the spouse scurries around. The SAH spouse has plenty of down time while the WOH spouse is commuting/working, particularly with kids in school all day.

So dollar earnings should have zero to do with chore splits — it should be all about trying to provide adequate free time to each spouse and dividing tasks equally during waking hours not earning pay other than the adequate free time.

First, anything related to parenting the children is not a household chore (so putting the kids to bed or giving them a bath is something a parent does regardless of their employment status).

Second, many people with SAH spouses CHOOSE to do some of the other chores you listed in their free time, and that’s great. However, it does not make it a ridiculous assertion that the expectation is for the spouse whose job it is to take care of the home (by staying at home) is the spouse who is default responsible for those things.

What? Of course things related to parenting children are household chores. MOST of the chores are related to the children.

Everyone has chores. Only parents take care of/play with/interact with children.

Stop playing dumb.

Okay. But if you don’t have children, you have like 5% of the chores that you have with children. And really, you don’t even have to do most of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You split it so everyone is working roughly the same, irrespective of earnings. I say that as the person who’s earned between 90 and 100 percent of the household income for many years. When I’m earning 100 percent of the income, as I am now, I don’t think I should get a pass in any household chores.

I am woman who has earned 100% most of the years since having kids. You better believe working all those hours gets me out of many household chores. My DH and children agree.

You earning 100% means your husband is a stay at home parent. Obviously he does the chores in that case, because that’s his job. This post is talking about two people who BOTH work outside the home for income. So your situation is completely irrelevant.

Read what I responded to before you criticize. I was responding to a poster who said that she earned 100% and she thought she should still do chores.

You are responding to me, and I am a "he." I am not saying we split chores equally. I'm saying that we roughly split work so that one of us is not overloaded. That means that even though I do 100% of the work outside of the house, I also pick up whatever work needs to be done at home that gives us roughly even amounts of work (time-wise).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

Your husband makes $3M a year and yet you are working as much as he does for $300k as an “insurance policy”? Do you have anxiety or something?

It's got to be fiction. No one with the chops to earn $3,000,000/ year is going to be so inefficient with their use of time that they would spend any significant amount of it on "household chores."

Are you not American? People don’t really have servants that wait on them like this in the US, no matter their income. It’s just not socially acceptable. Even billionaires do their own dishes and rake leaves.

Complete nonsense. You have no clue how financially comfortable people live.

There is literally a billionaire living down the street from me out raking leaves this morning.

No one in the US has servants who clear their dishes after every meal.

NP and I think I am the only person on my street that mows their own lawn and rakes their own leaves. The rest of the people (incomes $200K - $300K) outsource the entirety of their exterior work (lawn, house). I agree some things aren't practical to outsource like dishes but cooking could easily be outsourced by using something like blue apron or whatever where they deliver pre-chopped meals you just throw into a pan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

Your husband makes $3M a year and yet you are working as much as he does for $300k as an “insurance policy”? Do you have anxiety or something?

It's got to be fiction. No one with the chops to earn $3,000,000/ year is going to be so inefficient with their use of time that they would spend any significant amount of it on "household chores."

Are you not American? People don’t really have servants that wait on them like this in the US, no matter their income. It’s just not socially acceptable. Even billionaires do their own dishes and rake leaves.

Complete nonsense. You have no clue how financially comfortable people live.

There is literally a billionaire living down the street from me out raking leaves this morning.

No one in the US has servants who clear their dishes after every meal.

Poppycock.

[Anonymous]

What many of these responses seem to miss is that there is a fundamental difference between doing a household chore like washing dishes and doing a child-focused "chore" like feeding a baby, reading books to a toddler, helping an elementary kid with homework, overseeing a kid while they help with dinner, etc.

You can outsource a household chore and it has no impact on your relationship with your kids. If you bring someone in to cook and clean, offer them fair wages and treat them respectfully, this should not impact your relationship with your kids one way or the other.

If you bring someone in to do all your child-focused chores, even the ones that occur after you are done workin for the day, you are robbing your kids of important relationship-building with you. I'm not saying it's not okay to ever have a nanny help with feeding or teaching or spending time with kids. Of course they can, and especially with multiple kids, doing so might enable you to spend more quality time with your kids.

But the idea that just because someone is making a certain income, they should be able to outsource ALL parenting-related tasks? That's a really f***ed up view of parenting. The idea that making the money that pays for a child to be fed, clothed, comforted, taught, etc., exempts you from every actually doing those things in person? It makes you little more than a sperm (or egg) donor and benefactor. Parenting is much more about doing than paying. Paying is a baseline requirement for being a parent, but it is not "parenting." If you don't do any actual parenting, you aren't really a parent. You're just a paycheck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations should be based on work hours, not income. Across the board, pay is not generally reflective of how long or hard you work, some industries just pay a lot more than others.

That said, as someone who earns about 70% more than my husband and feels the after work/dinner scramble, lower the weeknight cooking expectations so one of you can get it on the table fast. We do a lot of leftovers of meals cooked on the weekend, pasta once a week, frozen food once a week, breakfast for dinner, and so on.

+1. It should obviously be based on total work hours, unless 1 person chooses a very intense but low-paying job, which they shouldn’t do with kids. But both OP and her DH work similar hours. Even if a family has a SAHP, both parents need to contribute on evenings and weekends.

This is not living in reality. Should a surgeon who earns 900K with a pre-school teacher husband who earns 70K expect to do a 50/50 split of chores?

If the surgeon works more hours than the preschool teacher, no. If they work the same number of hours, yes. If the surgeon has a problem with it, he/she can invite the teacher to make homelife his/her job and support their spouse, or they can use their high earnings to outsource. They don’t get to demand a spouse maintain a full time job earning money outside the home PLUS do all the work of a housewife/SAHP. Pick one or the other.

I don’t know if this pp is dumb or naive. Real life doesn’t work that way.

I don’t know, it’s the way my life is - I make around $300k and my husband makes 10x that. I could quit but we essentially view my job is an insurance policy until we’ve hit our retirement savings goal, which is high. Since we’re both working similar hours, we both put in the same hours at home/with the kids. If/when I do quit, I will pick up much more but in the meantime, it’s about both of us working full time, not money earned.

Your husband makes $3M a year and yet you are working as much as he does for $300k as an “insurance policy”? Do you have anxiety or something?

It's got to be fiction. No one with the chops to earn $3,000,000/ year is going to be so inefficient with their use of time that they would spend any significant amount of it on "household chores."

Are you not American? People don’t really have servants that wait on them like this in the US, no matter their income. It’s just not socially acceptable. Even billionaires do their own dishes and rake leaves.

Complete nonsense. You have no clue how financially comfortable people live.

There is literally a billionaire living down the street from me out raking leaves this morning.

No one in the US has servants who clear their dishes after every meal.

I mean, some people definitely do -- there are people with live-in staff who do everything for them, including pick up every dish they use and wash it and put it away for them. But it's a very different way of living. There are things I choose not to outsource because I don't want the incursion on my privacy. I could never have a live-in housekeeper because even if they were a great person, I'd get annoyed having them around.

Your neighbor isn't raking because it's impossible find someone to rake his leaves. He's raking because he enjoys it, or he doesn't like having so many people around his property, or because he feels he can do it better himself.

It is interesting to think about people's motivations for doing chores themselves when they could afford to hire someone else to do it. I think especially with kids, this can tell you a lot about people. I know many parents who could afford to hire in-home nannies or tutors or have someone else cook for their kids or pick them up from school, but choose to do it themselves even if it means getting away form work to do it, because to them that time with their kids is not just a chore, it's important time with their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What many of these responses seem to miss is that there is a fundamental difference between doing a household chore like washing dishes and doing a child-focused "chore" like feeding a baby, reading books to a toddler, helping an elementary kid with homework, overseeing a kid while they help with dinner, etc.

You can outsource a household chore and it has no impact on your relationship with your kids. If you bring someone in to cook and clean, offer them fair wages and treat them respectfully, this should not impact your relationship with your kids one way or the other.

If you bring someone in to do all your child-focused chores, even the ones that occur after you are done workin for the day, you are robbing your kids of important relationship-building with you. I'm not saying it's not okay to ever have a nanny help with feeding or teaching or spending time with kids. Of course they can, and especially with multiple kids, doing so might enable you to spend more quality time with your kids.

But the idea that just because someone is making a certain income, they should be able to outsource ALL parenting-related tasks? That's a really f***ed up view of parenting. The idea that making the money that pays for a child to be fed, clothed, comforted, taught, etc., exempts you from every actually doing those things in person? It makes you little more than a sperm (or egg) donor and benefactor. Parenting is much more about doing than paying. Paying is a baseline requirement for being a parent, but it is not "parenting." If you don't do any actual parenting, you aren't really a parent. You're just a paycheck.

100% agree

[Anonymous]

It sounds like he has set hours and you don't therefore he can't just leave at 5 to get the kids.

It's not about money, but it is about stability and he is proven in that area. You sound flaky and likely to lose this job because of your flakiness don't blame it on him not doing his fair share. It's you and your likely untreated ADHD causing the problem.
Your family can't afford him to lose his job for cutting out of hours because you can't support the household and are likely to be unemployed soon when you get bored.
And yes at home employees are monitored.

I don't understand why you can't afford a part time sitter to at least do the school run and start dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP just serve sandwiches for dinner every night and let the house get messy.

Sounds fine to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my husband expected me to do more child raising, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc. even though we both work full-time just because he made more, I would lean into and quit. Now you make infinitely more, honey, and I actually have time to do literally everything else for our family. Win win.

This. 50/50 of the household crap is fair if you both work full time, regardless of income.