Amazon is serious about RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, love reporting 3 days a week to the office to log on and have Zoom calls from my desk in the noisy open office concept space.

The open office concept was great when everyone was in the office on the same days. The noise never bothered me. If I needed to concentrate I simply put on my noise-canceling headphones. Or I could easily book a small conference area/meeting room to have an important call or meeting that needed more silence. We had our large meetings in one of several large conference rooms.

But now? It's a GD free-for-all! Those who need to be in the office on the same day for a meeting never are. It's nearly impossible to get a meeting room without reserving days out, which doesn't work for those spur-of-the-moment calls where you need to quickly put out a fire.

And the wifi in the office is total sh!t now because EVERYONE in here is constantly on a zoom call or a gd webinar.

I either want a job that's fully remote or fully 5 days a week in the office for everyone. Or a door. A gd door or some little cube walls would be great.

+ 100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

That’s great. You can go in as often as you like but why force it on others?

If the point is for people to work together in person, you either need everyone to go in or there's no point. Some people like going into the office because they just like the office and don't care if anyone else is there. But if the idea is that people need to be face to face at least some of the time to collaborate and get on the same page, then you can't have some people who are just never there.

It's a company culture issue. Some companies are fine with no mandatory face time. Others are not. But if Amazon has decided they want the kind of culture where people interact in person at least a few times a week, then they can decide that and "force" people to come in. Ideally no on his forced and if that's not a culture you want to participate in, then this isn't the company for you.

Employment is a two-way street. But the company does get to decide what the work expectations and environment will be like. The idea that you can just object permanently to something a company has decided is a core principle is childish. Just get another job.

I disagree with that. The employer can unilaterally decide to prospectively lower my pay or stack on additional duties without a pay raise such that my job no longer resembles the one for which I was hired. I can also tell them that my duty station will be my home office. They might decide to fire me or they might just not enforce their rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

That’s great. You can go in as often as you like but why force it on others?

If the point is for people to work together in person, you either need everyone to go in or there's no point. Some people like going into the office because they just like the office and don't care if anyone else is there. But if the idea is that people need to be face to face at least some of the time to collaborate and get on the same page, then you can't have some people who are just never there.

It's a company culture issue. Some companies are fine with no mandatory face time. Others are not. But if Amazon has decided they want the kind of culture where people interact in person at least a few times a week, then they can decide that and "force" people to come in. Ideally no on his forced and if that's not a culture you want to participate in, then this isn't the company for you.

Employment is a two-way street. But the company does get to decide what the work expectations and environment will be like. The idea that you can just object permanently to something a company has decided is a core principle is childish. Just get another job.

You don't seem to get jobs at Amazon. A lot of people spend the majority of their day on calls as their co-workers don't work in the same building or country nor do their customers. So, you drive an hour to be in a hot desk in a large room trying to talk over competing conversations. Many have been working at home long before covid, so they are forcing people who were work from home for years to come back in (though people who make it for years is very slim).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

That’s great. You can go in as often as you like but why force it on others?

If the point is for people to work together in person, you either need everyone to go in or there's no point. Some people like going into the office because they just like the office and don't care if anyone else is there. But if the idea is that people need to be face to face at least some of the time to collaborate and get on the same page, then you can't have some people who are just never there.

It's a company culture issue. Some companies are fine with no mandatory face time. Others are not. But if Amazon has decided they want the kind of culture where people interact in person at least a few times a week, then they can decide that and "force" people to come in. Ideally no on his forced and if that's not a culture you want to participate in, then this isn't the company for you.

Employment is a two-way street. But the company does get to decide what the work expectations and environment will be like. The idea that you can just object permanently to something a company has decided is a core principle is childish. Just get another job.

I disagree with that. The employer can unilaterally decide to prospectively lower my pay or stack on additional duties without a pay raise such that my job no longer resembles the one for which I was hired. I can also tell them that my duty station will be my home office. They might decide to fire me or they might just not enforce their rule.

Usually after the four year contract, pay goes down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

The cold, flu, covid excuse is one of the all time worst. Colds have been around for centuries. Get over yourself - snowflake.

It’s an issue if you live with someone with uncontrollable asthma.

What did you do in 2019 and the years prior to that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

This. I really only like to work at home with my spouse once or twice a week. I like having an office, and coworkers. I just don’t like the toll of my commute on my family life and health, the pay, the management, or the office environment my employer provides. If Amazon can make all of those things balance out for their employees, sign me up.

Go apply. Not easy to get a job with them. You will not get an office. They removed them all last year. Hopefully you’ll be one of the few that lasts more than a year or two.

Ok. I did. What you describe is not what I’m hearing from people there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

Sure he can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

How do you think people work in 2023? Most programs are now cloud based, and people are hot-desking without wired internet. Do you think people are writing stuff on legal pads?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

The cold, flu, covid excuse is one of the all time worst. Colds have been around for centuries. Get over yourself - snowflake.

It’s an issue if you live with someone with uncontrollable asthma.

What did you do in 2019 and the years prior to that?

It wasn't as bad in 2019 and my spouse was working 100% from home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

Sure he can.

Nope, he's not working 12 hours a day to make up for the commute time. Ironically none of the higher ups are going into the office yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

This. I really only like to work at home with my spouse once or twice a week. I like having an office, and coworkers. I just don’t like the toll of my commute on my family life and health, the pay, the management, or the office environment my employer provides. If Amazon can make all of those things balance out for their employees, sign me up.

Go apply. Not easy to get a job with them. You will not get an office. They removed them all last year. Hopefully you’ll be one of the few that lasts more than a year or two.

Ok. I did. What you describe is not what I’m hearing from people there.

Which office building are you talking about? The one my spouse is in they took away his and others private offices and they have hot desks. They completely remolded it. He lost his private office. And, they haven't replaced all the equipment yet. Its a huge issue with people on calls all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

This is the craziest ish I have ever seen on here. Our team is spread out across four time zones. How are we supposed to be working--from anywhere--without wifi?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

This is the craziest ish I have ever seen on here. Our team is spread out across four time zones. How are we supposed to be working--from anywhere--without wifi?

I think the PP is assuming everyone has a desk with a hard wired connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

This is the craziest ish I have ever seen on here. Our team is spread out across four time zones. How are we supposed to be working--from anywhere--without wifi?

I think the PP is assuming everyone has a desk with a hard wired connection.

Which is a crazy ass assumption considering there are 6 pages here full of people describing office conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

This is the craziest ish I have ever seen on here. Our team is spread out across four time zones. How are we supposed to be working--from anywhere--without wifi?

I think the PP is assuming everyone has a desk with a hard wired connection.

There are connections however that's not a big deal, its the commute time with the lack of flexibility given many start taking calls at 6-7 am all the way up to 10-11 PM. Amazon is demanding employees be flexible about calls, which is reasonable when it's a global company but with that they also need to give employees some flexibility too. So, if you spend two hours working at night, it's ok to take an hour or two in the middle of the day for something. Most teams are in multiple locations, often multiple countries so you aren't going in to be productive with your team and maybe at best a small portion of your team is in your office location.

There are hot desks now. My spouse lost their private office/desk space. They have to carry everything back and forth every day with them. When it goes back fully in person there isn't enough office space for everyone especially when some supervisors are demanding specific days in the office (despite them never going to the office themselves).