Amazon is serious about RTO

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is good for our area and hopefully the govt is next.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/business/amazon-jobs-return-to-office/index.html

I read this quite differently. If Amazon employees don’t go back after this, what exactly is this guy going to do to stop them? He is past the end of verbal escalation and it sounds like they’re it going.

They will give people bad performance reviews even if they don't deserve it, like they do now and fire them.

That’s not what he says he plans to do.

I think this man threw a temper tantrum in a newspaper and that may be about it. He can’t deliver the consequence he is threatening if the employee holdouts are as significant as he himself is admitting.

This is what they do normally, every year.

I understand that. But that is not what he is saying he will do, right here in print, about people who are holdouts on RTO specifically.

My point is not that he is a liar. We know that. My point is that he looks weak and is now in a poor position to execute what he says he will do, which will weaken him further.

I think they will terminate people.

Good ! Open up positions for real workers with real educations willing to get real results - not play board games with their kids and walk the dog all day

You can apply. What is stopping you. The dog perk is great when you are working 10 hours plus commute. No board games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

The cold, flu, covid excuse is one of the all time worst. Colds have been around for centuries. Get over yourself - snowflake.

It’s an issue if you live with someone with uncontrollable asthma.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

This. I really only like to work at home with my spouse once or twice a week. I like having an office, and coworkers. I just don’t like the toll of my commute on my family life and health, the pay, the management, or the office environment my employer provides. If Amazon can make all of those things balance out for their employees, sign me up.

Go apply. Not easy to get a job with them. You will not get an office. They removed them all last year. Hopefully you’ll be one of the few that lasts more than a year or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The pay at Amazon is so much higher than most other places I think employees can suck it up and go to the office.

No it’s not and it depends on your position.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pay at Amazon is so much higher than most other places I think employees can suck it up and go to the office.

No it’s not and it depends on your position.

The stock is going back up but a lot of people took huge pay cuts last year. I made less than my Fed spouse in 2022. Part of the general unhappiness with RTO is that there are a whole host of issues, comp being one, layoffs another, that have made morale low.

Yes, I know I can leave. I have an offer in hand for 2X my Amazon comp and am likely to take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pay at Amazon is so much higher than most other places I think employees can suck it up and go to the office.

No it’s not and it depends on your position.

For SWEs, Amazon ( and other FAANGs) pay far, far more than most employers. That is indisputable. I don't know about other functions and positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

That’s great. You can go in as often as you like but why force it on others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pay at Amazon is so much higher than most other places I think employees can suck it up and go to the office.

No it’s not and it depends on your position.

For SWEs, Amazon ( and other FAANGs) pay far, far more than most employers. That is indisputable. I don't know about other functions and positions.

No, it’s not. And after your four year contract if you survive it generally goes way down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

The cold, flu, covid excuse is one of the all time worst. Colds have been around for centuries. Get over yourself - snowflake.

It’s an issue if you live with someone with uncontrollable asthma.

Uncontrollable? They should be in a hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pay at Amazon is so much higher than most other places I think employees can suck it up and go to the office.

No it’s not and it depends on your position.

The stock is going back up but a lot of people took huge pay cuts last year. I made less than my Fed spouse in 2022. Part of the general unhappiness with RTO is that there are a whole host of issues, comp being one, layoffs another, that have made morale low.

Yes, I know I can leave. I have an offer in hand for 2X my Amazon comp and am likely to take it.

why wouldnt you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are serious about it, but boy has it been an epic cluster of leadership failure. From a heavy handed proclamation all must return without assessing office space (put them in the utility closets? Do they REALLY need wifi?) To hackneyed guidance on enforcement, it's been an absolute mess and they look like fools. All the engineers and they can't integrate a badge system to PTO or leave of absence systems? Sending out threatening emails about not being in the office 3 days a week to people on paternity and medical leave with obvious exceptions was despicable.

No one needs wifi at work - in the office. No one.

People that have meetings typically need WiFi. No one uses legal pads anymore bud.

Your conf rooms dont have internet connections? What is this 1983?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad. 100% remote work is bad for everyone (accept perhaps the slackers who hide behind WFH to mask how little they actually do). My nephew just got his business degree and he needs a job and wants to go into the office. I hope it works out for him getting to take the spot from someone who can't fathom leaving their house.

You clearly don’t work for amazon. My spouse works a minimum of 10 hours a day work from home. With the hour commute he cannot work as much so they will lose productivity. And, it’s mainly calls so being in a big room with others calls is not a good thing. They have hot desks so you have to get in early or it’s a problem. Not to mention cold, flu and Covid going around. You truly have no idea.

The cold, flu, covid excuse is one of the all time worst. Colds have been around for centuries. Get over yourself - snowflake.

It’s an issue if you live with someone with uncontrollable asthma.

Uncontrollable? They should be in a hospital.

ER and hospital do nothing but refer you to someone else. Its a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 year old, I can't stand working from home every day. I just want to work home maybe 20-40% of the time, but living in a 500 sq ft apartment alone, its lonely af!

I hear you! The 20s and some 30s need to be around other people. I hope you can find a better balance for yourself out there. You’re at a good age to keep trying new things.

I'm in my 40s and feel this way. Also my DH works from home 2 days a week, and it works best if we can stagger our days so we have the house to ourselves. It's not necessary (we both worked at home full time for two years) but I think it's healthy for us. Maybe one day of overlap a week, but more than that is overkill. I'm most productive on my WFH days when I'm totally alone.

So you want to be around people, as long as it's not your husband.

DP but I’m around my husband all the time. I just don’t want to WORK with him around all the time. He’s loud. It can be a little jarring for him to see me in “executive mode” all the time. And when work is killing me, I prefer to be out of the house so no one has to deal with me that isn’t paid to.

I'm the PP who said I like to stagger my WFH days with my DH and it's partly this (DH and I have different work styles and schedules and they don't always mesh great -- he's on calls all day long whereas my work involves a lot of focused solo time) and also partly that I think it's healthy to be away from your spouse during your work day. I do like WFH a couple times a week because I find those days of solitude really help me get through big projects and get away from distractions. But if I'm interacting with people during my work day, it makes sense that the people I want to interact with are my coworkers. We're working together.

And then in the evening DH and I come back together and can share things about our day and reconnect. You can't do that if you've spent the day working 10 feet away from each other. We already know. Getting a little distance and interacting with other people adds some dimension to our relationship that otherwise isn't there. I really don't get how people who work with their spouses do it. I like having some separation.

That’s great. You can go in as often as you like but why force it on others?

If the point is for people to work together in person, you either need everyone to go in or there's no point. Some people like going into the office because they just like the office and don't care if anyone else is there. But if the idea is that people need to be face to face at least some of the time to collaborate and get on the same page, then you can't have some people who are just never there.

It's a company culture issue. Some companies are fine with no mandatory face time. Others are not. But if Amazon has decided they want the kind of culture where people interact in person at least a few times a week, then they can decide that and "force" people to come in. Ideally no on his forced and if that's not a culture you want to participate in, then this isn't the company for you.

Employment is a two-way street. But the company does get to decide what the work expectations and environment will be like. The idea that you can just object permanently to something a company has decided is a core principle is childish. Just get another job.

[Anonymous]

Just one data point. The only person l know who works for Amazon is the wife of a co-worker. He and l have been back 3-4 days per week in the office for over a year. She has been working full time for Amazon, WFH, while also taking care of their 4 year old (might be 5 now and starting kindergarten). They do not have other child care and didn’t think they needed it, like it was nbd to have no child care. The kid has a lot of screen time. I didn’t say anything judgemental to him, but inside you bet l was, that poor little kid.

So based on my one data point I’m not at all surprised about the 3 days in person requirement.