How to answer sons who are asking me why so many girls have 'girls are better' merch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread is starting to scream “all lives matter”.

I’m the very first poster after OP and I knew the second I saw it that that’s what was going to happen.

Your little white boys are safe, don’t worry. They will still be told in many ways by American culture that they are very very special and deserve to have things.

The main issue here is that OP’s kids (and mine, and everyone else’s kids) need to learn to de-center themselves from stuff like this. If your white sons feel sad because there’s a Girls on the Run club at their school, tell them why it exists - girls weren’t allowed to play sports with boys or sometimes at all. You can come up with a reason based in the patriarchy for why all the excessive positive messages toward girls exist. Explain to them the messages girls USED to get pervasively and help them understand that those shirts are not about them. The shirts are not intended to attack them, and parents sending the message “no, you are totally special as a boy, don’t listen to those mean shirts” takes something intended to empower another entire group of people and makes it about your sons.

Stop centering the feelings of privileged people in social conversations about inequality and empowerment. Yes, your little children can understand this. Expect more of yourselves.

[Anonymous]

I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is stopping an entrepreneur from marketing merch with “boys rule” messaging. The way some posters are carrying on, you would think there would be a huge market for it. So why doesn’t it happen? Because why? Because that messaging would be tone deaf? Why would it be tone deaf? Explain it to me like I am five. And then maybe you have your answer for why this merch is popular and acceptable for girls and would be ridiculous for boys.

Oh, that’s actually a good thought experiment to discuss with my DS. thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

I should rephrase that. Boys don’t need that encouragement framed in gender-specific terms. Except maybe in terms of redefining roles they play in domestic situations. Professionally and academic, the drive for boys to achieve is already endemic. There’s no need for equivalent messaging/sloganing the way it exists for girls.

It is not. You've got this wrong. If you are a curious person, you can easily find this information and it shows that boys do not succeed and achieve the way that girls do. It starts young and gets worse.

Bullshit.

Boys are not succeeding academically. Look it up. Then eat your post.

No, sealion. You made the claim. Prove it yourself. Best you’ll find, I predict, is some tropes about “what about the boys?”

Lol @ sealion. There was already a link posted in the thread. Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread is starting to scream “all lives matter”.

I’m the very first poster after OP and I knew the second I saw it that that’s what was going to happen.

Your little white boys are safe, don’t worry. They will still be told in many ways by American culture that they are very very special and deserve to have things.

The main issue here is that OP’s kids (and mine, and everyone else’s kids) need to learn to de-center themselves from stuff like this. If your white sons feel sad because there’s a Girls on the Run club at their school, tell them why it exists - girls weren’t allowed to play sports with boys or sometimes at all. You can come up with a reason based in the patriarchy for why all the excessive positive messages toward girls exist. Explain to them the messages girls USED to get pervasively and help them understand that those shirts are not about them. The shirts are not intended to attack them, and parents sending the message “no, you are totally special as a boy, don’t listen to those mean shirts” takes something intended to empower another entire group of people and makes it about your sons.

Stop centering the feelings of privileged people in social conversations about inequality and empowerment. Yes, your little children can understand this. Expect more of yourselves.

Oh brother. You’re literally magnifying the power of the red pill with every hackneyed word you write. Every time you superciliously order someone to “decenter yourself” you may as well be sending $100 to DeSantis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve!

Sure! Sounds like you’re deliberately raising boys to believe their strength makes them superior to other people. That’s toxic and makes you part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve!

Sure! Sounds like you’re deliberately raising boys to believe their strength makes them superior to other people. That’s toxic and makes you part of the problem.

With great power comes great responsibility.

It's not - Pretend you aren't stronger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is stopping an entrepreneur from marketing merch with “boys rule” messaging. The way some posters are carrying on, you would think there would be a huge market for it. So why doesn’t it happen? Because why? Because that messaging would be tone deaf? Why would it be tone deaf? Explain it to me like I am five. And then maybe you have your answer for why this merch is popular and acceptable for girls and would be ridiculous for boys.

Oh, that’s actually a good thought experiment to discuss with my DS. thanks!

Maybe encourage them to start a business and try to sell this merchandise. Would you be willing to capitalize it for them? One part of doing their research and business plan is learning what proportion of entrepreneurs are men vs women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve!

Sure! Sounds like you’re deliberately raising boys to believe their strength makes them superior to other people. That’s toxic and makes you part of the problem.

DP. If you WANT boys to have a nuanced understanding of what it means that men are on the average stronger than women, it’s sure as sh*t not gonna happen by lecturing them about decentering themselves, expecting them to be superhumanly resistant to negative messaging, and expecting them to accept being judged/excluded based on their gender/color.

Teaching kids about this stuff cannot be left to ditzy leftists whose understanding of human and child psychology goes no deeper than a bumpersticker slogan. Who believe that all we have to do is read our children the Antiracist Baby Book and then they will be perfect activists.

The fact is, the progessive take on teaching values to kids is usually a projection of their own anxiety to make a show of their own moral purity. The focus is all on the adult using the proper moral words, not on how kids actually learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my boys that they can do anything girls can do. I tell them that they are biologically stronger than girls. I tell them that men do all the most dangerous jobs and that the jobs that keep society functioning are mostly male dominated.

Do you tell them that society should be male dominated? Do you tell them that their strength makes them better than girls or less strong boys?

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve!

Sure! Sounds like you’re deliberately raising boys to believe their strength makes them superior to other people. That’s toxic and makes you part of the problem.

With great power comes great responsibility.

It's not - Pretend you aren't stronger.

DP. Yep, I agree. I recently did a sex ed talk with my 10 yr old and he was actually really surprised to hear that testosterone naturally makes boys’ bodies stronger. I’m not sure that they’d even be allowed to teach that in schools these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know , OP, but my son complained that his elementary school has a “girls on the run” club but no running club for boys that he could join. And he wants to join!

He also asked me why the gym has a big “girls rule” sign in it and no boys rule sign. The sign is actually from the the girls
On the run club so it goes hand in hand with his other complaint I guess. I also had a hard time with these questions and actually encouraged him to ask to join the girls on the run club because he was absolutely correct. But, he was nervous to so he didn’t. For reference he is a rising 2nd grader.

As a woman, you should be able to have these conversations with your sons openly. Historically girls were not encouraged to participate in sports, and in fact, they weren’t allowed to. Title IV! These clubs are around to encourage girls to do things that historically they were not allowed to do. Easy answer.

NP here. I agree. I’ve had this conversation with my elementary age boys. We’ve talked about historically marginalized groups and how sometimes the pendulum has to swing really far the other way before things come back to the middle. I also used this as an opportunity to discuss the concept of slurs and how the groups they’ve been used against are allowed to repurpose the words in a way that white people can’t use them. My kids know the world is complicated and not always fair, but to also recognize it’s sometimes because other groups were treated really unfairly.

It’s a complex topic even for adults, so it will be an ongoing conversation in our house. That said, I would look into how to start a coed running group if my kid really wanted to do that. Our PTA offers after school extracurriculars including a run club for boys and girls. If not through the school then look for another opportunity. I’m sure there is one nearby boys can join.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

I should rephrase that. Boys don’t need that encouragement framed in gender-specific terms. Except maybe in terms of redefining roles they play in domestic situations. Professionally and academic, the drive for boys to achieve is already endemic. There’s no need for equivalent messaging/sloganing the way it exists for girls.

It is not. You've got this wrong. If you are a curious person, you can easily find this information and it shows that boys do not succeed and achieve the way that girls do. It starts young and gets worse.

Bullshit.

Boys are not succeeding academically. Look it up. Then eat your post.

No, sealion. You made the claim. Prove it yourself. Best you’ll find, I predict, is some tropes about “what about the boys?”

Lol @ sealion. There was already a link posted in the thread. Thanks for playing.

That was a single link about education.

Now so now do other metrics for “succeed and achieve.” I’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

I should rephrase that. Boys don’t need that encouragement framed in gender-specific terms. Except maybe in terms of redefining roles they play in domestic situations. Professionally and academic, the drive for boys to achieve is already endemic. There’s no need for equivalent messaging/sloganing the way it exists for girls.

It is not. You've got this wrong. If you are a curious person, you can easily find this information and it shows that boys do not succeed and achieve the way that girls do. It starts young and gets worse.

Bullshit.

Boys are not succeeding academically. Look it up. Then eat your post.

No, sealion. You made the claim. Prove it yourself. Best you’ll find, I predict, is some tropes about “what about the boys?”

Lol @ sealion. There was already a link posted in the thread. Thanks for playing.

That was a single link about education.

Now so now do other metrics for “succeed and achieve.” I’ll wait.

How about the fact that men have higher rates of substance abuse, mental illness, and suicide?

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2019/06/03/men-more-likely-than-women-to-face-substance-use-disorders-and-mental-illness

https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html