This is what happens....

[Anonymous]

$1M isn’t enough. While I agree with some of your sentiment, the idea that a million dollars would cover costs is ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that is consistent with my boomer relatives who weren’t recently working or running a business is that they grossly over value their assets and grossly underestimate their spending. Several are convinced that they are sitting on goldmines of stuff when in reality their children will have to spend money to haul it away. Several own properties but grossly over estimate what it’s worth. They don’t understand that their homes are tear downs and the value is in the land.

I really think that people in the 50 to 75 year age group are able to manage their own lives. If there is an exception to this, it is due to a specific problem such as early onset dementia, or even possibly mental illness, and this is not common. I don't think this age group needs help from their kids to make financial decisions for them, but the younger generation can ask about their general situation is in the case they will need to know as next of kin. They can also ask that estate planning be more streamlined, such as having things payable upon death or setting up a trust.
Let's get a grip on reality. Offspring may not like the choices, but their parents are certainly capable of making them.

As an adult you get to do anything you want IF you don't expect anyone to rescue you or take care of you. If you plan to depend on your kids in any way, you need to be collaborative and realistic. These conversations should start long before you need help. Burying your head in the sand seems to be all too common.

Choices have consequences. It's not a matter of whether we like them or not, it's a matter of whether we can jump in at a moment's notice as we expect. My own mother was LIVID with me for having health issues the 100th time she needed me and then no longer being willing to be her verbal punching bag. She hates that people are now hired to manage everything for her. All those years she spent traveling with dad and gaslighting her siblings who told her the parents were a disaster. The parents had angry, hostile mean dementia, but my mother insists that is not true. She refused to accept dementia runs in her family. Her siblings saw the writing on the wall and refused to make life hell for their own adult children. They are in continued care and their children can just enjoy visiting them. She refused to consider continued care communities and rots at home stewing and plotting and refusing to stay on her meds. Her neighbors see her and make an excuse to run inside or quickly get in their cars. These were her choices. Denial caught up with her. now her favorite past time is writing nastygrams via text and email and leaving them by voicemail. Her siblings have plenty of friends where they are, seem to not be on the dementia train yet and they enjoy the kids bringing the grandkids because nobody has to protect the grandkids from abuse, they aren't abusive....yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing that is consistent with my boomer relatives who weren’t recently working or running a business is that they grossly over value their assets and grossly underestimate their spending. Several are convinced that they are sitting on goldmines of stuff when in reality their children will have to spend money to haul it away. Several own properties but grossly over estimate what it’s worth. They don’t understand that their homes are tear downs and the value is in the land.

Is that boomers or the older generation? We are in the process of emptying out my mothers house and agree that it's mostly donations and trash. And the house wasn't up to current standards but is about to sell for $900k. But she's not a boomer, she's silent generation.

I'm a boomer (younger end) and have 2 homes - one valued at $1.8m and the other at $2.5m. Totally updated and I could sell them today for that. Most of my boomer friends live in similar homes. 3 moved to Park City in the last year and have unbelievable houses. And my age cohort is mostly getting rid of stuff, not hoarding it. Also not sure any of my friends are under the impression that their furnishings have any value whatsoever. When I get rid of stuff I freecycle or donate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Agree with this. And in some places there are additional resources. Montgomery County has a program for seniors under a certain income level to subsidize rent in retirement places. The parents need to sell the house and move to a life care community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to protect their estate from the estate recovery! This is all you can do I think.

Given how late it sounds like OP's parents are in the game here, it is probably too late for that.

Yes, and I tried much earlier. My aunt told my mother that I was trying to steal their money My mother was too afraid to make a change. My father had them invested in high risk. So stupid

They now have 7 grand left. 4 or which will go to taxes and HOA fees this month. They also need a new hot water heater. The good thing is they can quality for help when they have less than 2 grand in savings. None of this needed to happen. None.

What are they applying for? Sounds like they are both still in their home, yes?

Applying to see if they qualify for my sister to be a paid caregiver to them

So she would be the caregiver, but remain in the home? Aren't they nearly depleted of funds? Having your sister compensated would be great, but how does covering their other expenses work?

OP, sorry that you are going through this - not ever easy.

At this point, we could help them some with taxes/insurance/HOA because I know there is a caregiver. When one goes to nursing home care (or both), since the house is not in an irrevocable trust, Medicaid can force the sale of the house when the other spouse (if living in the house) passes. The first 150K we keep and the government takes the rest. I’d been trying to tell them all that for years, but no one listened

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Do you know that Medicaid won’t take people who make more than their paltry limit? Both my parents’ social security puts them over that limit.

The problem is that they will not entertain selling the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Agree with this. And in some places there are additional resources. Montgomery County has a program for seniors under a certain income level to subsidize rent in retirement places. The parents need to sell the house and move to a life care community.

OP here. Agreed. Problem: they don’t and are considered of sound mind. So now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Agree with this. And in some places there are additional resources. Montgomery County has a program for seniors under a certain income level to subsidize rent in retirement places. The parents need to sell the house and move to a life care community.

OP here. Agreed. Problem: they don’t and are considered of sound mind. So now what?

Present this as the option. If they choose to do something different make clear that you will not bail them out. Present the alternative scenarios factually not dramatically.

Go visit a couple of places - maybe they will become more interested once they see it.

Be willing to just let it go. My mother eventually saw the light when she could no longer care for the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Agree with this. And in some places there are additional resources. Montgomery County has a program for seniors under a certain income level to subsidize rent in retirement places. The parents need to sell the house and move to a life care community.

OP here. Agreed. Problem: they don’t and are considered of sound mind. So now what?

Present this as the option. If they choose to do something different make clear that you will not bail them out. Present the alternative scenarios factually not dramatically.

Go visit a couple of places - maybe they will become more interested once they see it.

Be willing to just let it go. My mother eventually saw the light when she could no longer care for the house.

EXACTLY what I plan to do re: letting them know I will not support unsustainable decision. They live cross country (another issue)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that is consistent with my boomer relatives who weren’t recently working or running a business is that they grossly over value their assets and grossly underestimate their spending. Several are convinced that they are sitting on goldmines of stuff when in reality their children will have to spend money to haul it away. Several own properties but grossly over estimate what it’s worth. They don’t understand that their homes are tear downs and the value is in the land.

I really think that people in the 50 to 75 year age group are able to manage their own lives. If there is an exception to this, it is due to a specific problem such as early onset dementia, or even possibly mental illness, and this is not common. I don't think this age group needs help from their kids to make financial decisions for them, but the younger generation can ask about their general situation is in the case they will need to know as next of kin. They can also ask that estate planning be more streamlined, such as having things payable upon death or setting up a trust.
Let's get a grip on reality. Offspring may not like the choices, but their parents are certainly capable of making them.

As an adult you get to do anything you want IF you don't expect anyone to rescue you or take care of you. If you plan to depend on your kids in any way, you need to be collaborative and realistic. These conversations should start long before you need help. Burying your head in the sand seems to be all too common.

Choices have consequences. It's not a matter of whether we like them or not, it's a matter of whether we can jump in at a moment's notice as we expect. My own mother was LIVID with me for having health issues the 100th time she needed me and then no longer being willing to be her verbal punching bag. She hates that people are now hired to manage everything for her. All those years she spent traveling with dad and gaslighting her siblings who told her the parents were a disaster. The parents had angry, hostile mean dementia, but my mother insists that is not true. She refused to accept dementia runs in her family. Her siblings saw the writing on the wall and refused to make life hell for their own adult children. They are in continued care and their children can just enjoy visiting them. She refused to consider continued care communities and rots at home stewing and plotting and refusing to stay on her meds. Her neighbors see her and make an excuse to run inside or quickly get in their cars. These were her choices. Denial caught up with her. now her favorite past time is writing nastygrams via text and email and leaving them by voicemail. Her siblings have plenty of friends where they are, seem to not be on the dementia train yet and they enjoy the kids bringing the grandkids because nobody has to protect the grandkids from abuse, they aren't abusive....yet.

Try to understand my point.
No one is saying that people shouldn't plan for the future and all its possible consequences. I am saying that people in the 50 to 75 ish group are perfectly able to do this without their kids helping them or guiding them or taking them by the hand to these resources. They are perfectly able at this age to be completely cogent and probably better at this than their kids who are in their 30s 40s and even 50s. And their opinion about what happens to them matters, not how your life can be made easier. Can you suggest? Yes. Can you voice concerns? Do you need to mollycoddle and patronize? No. You are way off.

Don't conflate your personal issues with your mother into advice to the larger population. Your family, and all their "mishegas" ( quirks) is pertinent only to your family.

[Anonymous]

Try to understand my point.
No one is saying that people shouldn't plan for the future and all its possible consequences. I am saying that people in the 50 to 75 ish group are perfectly able to do this without their kids helping them or guiding them or taking them by the hand to these resources. They are perfectly able at this age to be completely cogent and probably better at this than their kids who are in their 30s 40s and even 50s.
^^
I don't know about all this. My parents had pretty substantial decline around age 70 and then after isolating for two years they really lost a lot of mental capacity, energy, executive functioning, and social skills. My mom is 76 and makes errors on her medications, loses stuff all the time, and is generally very difficult to be around. She needs help to manage her day-to-day already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$1M isn’t enough. While I agree with some of your sentiment, the idea that a million dollars would cover costs is ludicrous.

When you combine family help and outside help with that kind of money, it’s enough in most cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people screaming that our parents have the right to live as they choose, wake the F UP.

My parents refused to move. My sister lives with them and, I see now, enabled it so she could keep the roof over her head. Had they moved a few years ago, listened to reason,they would be sitting on easy street with over a mil in the bank, being able to hire caregivers, stay in the lovely home they downsized to.

What they have now: desperation, no money, incontinence, immobilization due to declining health, and destined for a state-run nursing home for one or both that will take their home through estate recovery. Even if one still lives there, if the other dies in nursing home on Medicaid, the state/feds can take about 150K of the value in repayment. And they are still screaming that they won't move and won't go to a nursing home. My father still insists MediCARE will pay for all they need. Totally clueless. My mother will soon be in a wheelchair and/or bedridden all day. My father is too out of it to even care about that, not because he's selfish, but because of a past stroke. He has no capacity to make a good decision.

We cannot afford the 10K plus per month that will be required for them to live the life they desire. So the solution to them is for me to uproot my life and go out there full time and service their needs. I'm not the only one to try to talk sense into them. My aunt (father's sister) tried and all my father would do is scream at her that he knew what he was doing and would not be controlled. My aunt is 96, bought her own addition to my cousin's house and lives well with them, in the life she deserves and loves. She invested in long term care insurance early on. She's fine financially because she made good decisions. She's still so spry and so smart and I'm lucky to have her in my life.

All of this - ALL OF THIS - did NOT have to happen. Years of calling me a control freak and doing NOTHING has put them in this position. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated. I'm hoping when my mother finally gets scared enough, she will allow me and my older sister to come whisk her away from the fresh hell she's living in.

I don’t get the problem. They sell their house, spend down their assets, and find a nursing home that will take Medicaid. They can't take their home with them when they die anyway.

Agree with this. And in some places there are additional resources. Montgomery County has a program for seniors under a certain income level to subsidize rent in retirement places. The parents need to sell the house and move to a life care community.

What if the parents refuse to sell their home as so many do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Try to understand my point.
No one is saying that people shouldn't plan for the future and all its possible consequences. I am saying that people in the 50 to 75 ish group are perfectly able to do this without their kids helping them or guiding them or taking them by the hand to these resources. They are perfectly able at this age to be completely cogent and probably better at this than their kids who are in their 30s 40s and even 50s.
^^
I don't know about all this. My parents had pretty substantial decline around age 70 and then after isolating for two years they really lost a lot of mental capacity, energy, executive functioning, and social skills. My mom is 76 and makes errors on her medications, loses stuff all the time, and is generally very difficult to be around. She needs help to manage her day-to-day already.

My parents were the same too. They were 71 and 73 when Covid hit. My mom already had slight dementia but went downhill fast --obviously I can't say for sure it was the isolation of Covid but I'm sure that didn't help. By September 2020 she was still only 71 but completely incapable of functioning.