Teachers not providing feedback IS a serious problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also often students are encouraged to meet with the teacher go over the writing in more detail and they can do that during study hall time.

There’s a whole long thread on DCUM filled with parents aghast — AGHAST! — that this is expected of their kids. Don’t teachers know that they’d rather use study hall to screw around with their friends and play on their phones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an English teacher. I provide a ton of meaningful feedback. It’s actually the #1 reason I am thinking of leaving the profession after 18 years of successful teaching.

I agree with the parents here. Yes, written feedback is very important. That’s why I do it. Unfortunately, feedback on one set of essays can take me 30 hours. I don’t get ANY time to grade at work, so that is done in the evenings, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday. It isn’t unusual for me to work 7 10-hour days a week. This isn’t exaggeration. It’s the only way I can get that feedback to students quick enough to make it matter.

I have my own family. My own children are growing up without a mom since my head is always bent over papers for 10 months of every year. It isn’t worth it.

I’m planning on quitting. It isn’t pay or student behavior driving my decision. It’s the grading and the system’s lack of respect for my time.

But this has been your entire career so why is this year somehow different? Class sizes haven't changed. Your colleagues obviously do not grade this way. I don't get why there are teaches on here saying they are the one truly good English teacher thinking of leaving but somehow they have no actual agency to do anything through their school. They are just puppets who apparently slaved away for years while their colleages left at the bell but now due to some who knows what issue that just magically came about, because we know SOL's went away for the most part especially the writing ones, they are now ready to leave. It's all just smoke and mirrors. It's just another teacher who never did any of this work just making up stories to leave so they can feel better about themselves. If this were a real case they would be able to document how anything changed and why this year is so terrible and what they did to help make change that didn't work. Class size hasn't changed. Assessments have been less not more. SOL's less not more. Homework less not more. Everything is less.

You are incorrect in nearly every sentence you typed. It’s actually quite impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an English teacher. I provide a ton of meaningful feedback. It’s actually the #1 reason I am thinking of leaving the profession after 18 years of successful teaching.

I agree with the parents here. Yes, written feedback is very important. That’s why I do it. Unfortunately, feedback on one set of essays can take me 30 hours. I don’t get ANY time to grade at work, so that is done in the evenings, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday. It isn’t unusual for me to work 7 10-hour days a week. This isn’t exaggeration. It’s the only way I can get that feedback to students quick enough to make it matter.

I have my own family. My own children are growing up without a mom since my head is always bent over papers for 10 months of every year. It isn’t worth it.

I’m planning on quitting. It isn’t pay or student behavior driving my decision. It’s the grading and the system’s lack of respect for my time.

But this has been your entire career so why is this year somehow different? Class sizes haven't changed. Your colleagues obviously do not grade this way. I don't get why there are teaches on here saying they are the one truly good English teacher thinking of leaving but somehow they have no actual agency to do anything through their school. They are just puppets who apparently slaved away for years while their colleages left at the bell but now due to some who knows what issue that just magically came about, because we know SOL's went away for the most part especially the writing ones, they are now ready to leave. It's all just smoke and mirrors. It's just another teacher who never did any of this work just making up stories to leave so they can feel better about themselves. If this were a real case they would be able to document how anything changed and why this year is so terrible and what they did to help make change that didn't work. Class size hasn't changed. Assessments have been less not more. SOL's less not more. Homework less not more. Everything is less.

This is a rather nonsensical post. It appears you are questioning whether I actually work as hard as I do? You are assuming I’m some type of martyr as my coworkers leave work at the end of the day empty-handed? That couldn’t be further from the truth.

The job has gotten exponentially harder in the last five years. We now cover during our planning periods. Student behaviors take up FAR more time than they used to. We are now responsible for a lot more than we used to be.

I assume you aren’t a teacher? If you are, you would have already known this.

NP. Then it sounds like it is time for you to move on. Your complaints sound valid. But, moving on, you'd be happier, or at least less bitter. And maybe the kids would get the meaningful feedback that they need from someone who still wants to be there.

Oh, sweetie. You’re delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Then it sounds like it is time for you to move on. Your complaints sound valid. But, moving on, you'd be happier, or at least less bitter. And maybe the kids would get the meaningful feedback that they need from someone who still wants to be there.

I’m not the person you replied to but lol how clueless. Teachers moving on is what’s causing the problem. The mythical person you want to teach your kids isn’t coming and the more that leave the faster those remain burn out and leave too, and all that will be left are the teachers that can’t leave and those are generally not the ones you want. People with all the right training as well as infinite passion in the face of awful conditions does not exist at the scale FCPS needs.

Not clueless. It's spot on. Plenty of teachers at my kid's school are stellar. and have found a way to make it work and work well Then there are the ones that are not and have not (luckily for us that has been the exception not the rule). And we'd all be happier, them and us, if they just moved on. Conditions are not changing in the way that teachers want them to and so the "survival of the fittest" is going to have to act to cull out those who don't like the current situation. And let's face it, even paying more isn't going to fix those things.

Whatever.

I only have a few more years in FCPS. So in the end, this is not going to affect us. So, if you all want to go around hurling insults at parents for what are LEGITIMATE concerns, have at it. Literally, I don't care.

Those stellar teachers who make it work? They are sacrificing their nights and weekends. They just aren’t telling you that. Teachers who will “make it work and work well” give up their work / life balance.

Survival of the fittest? I don’t want my job to be a “survival” situation. Your word choice alone shows what you really think of teachers. We are expected to martyr ourselves: just shut up and take the conditions, or be “weak” and leave.

But by your own admission: you don’t care. I am not one of the posters hurling insults at parents, but I am a teacher who endures tons FROM parents on DCUM. I have to remind myself that most parents aren’t as disrespectful as what I see here.

- stellar teacher here

Well, good for you. I stand by my comments and some of the others on here. And, with only a few years left, no I really don't care. And as for "work/life" you have all summer off and are not the only profession that struggles with that. So, I really don't want to hear it.

No one gives a single, solitary damn what you “really don’t want to hear.” You are so very, very much less important than you think you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach HS science and saw about 90 students today. I asked how many wanted to be a teacher and not a single hand went up. I asked them why not and they just started laughing because they know what the job requires, but they continue to joke around and hold side conversations, play on phones, watch cartoons on laptops they are "using to see the notes better", etc. I had multiple students write passes to the bathroom today only to be gone for 20 minutes, out of a 90 min period. I don't have time to write emails to parents about behavior that, despite parents speaking with their students, does not change. I actually had a student today take a phone back off of my desk after I confiscated it while my back was turned. I'm one of the teachers kids say they really want to get for my subject. I still get incredible levels of disrespect every day.

This made me so sad to read. I am so sorry for you. Thank you for continuing to teach despite what you have to endure because you ARE making a difference in many of these kids lives, I assure you. Hugs.

I am sorry too-this is not ok.

I just want to back up everything they said. I teach English and I would say I am well liked and seen as a good teacher to have among the kids generally but they just do not respect anyone. Not eachother and not us. I had a student go in my work bag recently and take a whole pack of gum. Actually multiple colleagues had small stuff like this taken. When we confront the kid they just say “it’s not a big deal it’s like $3.” They’re kinda like little boomers honestly … everyone else’s feelings don’t matter, they’re going to do what they want. I came home and cried a few weeks ago to my husband about what has happened when I used to love this job so much. I don’t think most adults can even imagine what it’s really like in a high school these days , even for the good teachers who the kids generally enjoy and admire.

And if you report to the parent(s), the vast majority blow it off and excuse it away. The many bad apples don’t fall far from rotten trees.

I’m the PP. I called a dad to say his son was coming to school but spending all day in the hall, bathroom, auditorium study hall and as a result was failing ALL of his classes. The dad literally said “Well I’ll talk to him and see what his concerns are, we don’t see this behavior at home.” Really, your son doesn’t skip class at home? That’s stunning. Same kid is going to fail this entire year and repeat the grade now because no matter how many times we called, got the counselor to ask them to come in for a meeting, nothing changed . It’s incredible .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach HS science and saw about 90 students today. I asked how many wanted to be a teacher and not a single hand went up. I asked them why not and they just started laughing because they know what the job requires, but they continue to joke around and hold side conversations, play on phones, watch cartoons on laptops they are "using to see the notes better", etc. I had multiple students write passes to the bathroom today only to be gone for 20 minutes, out of a 90 min period. I don't have time to write emails to parents about behavior that, despite parents speaking with their students, does not change. I actually had a student today take a phone back off of my desk after I confiscated it while my back was turned. I'm one of the teachers kids say they really want to get for my subject. I still get incredible levels of disrespect every day.

This made me so sad to read. I am so sorry for you. Thank you for continuing to teach despite what you have to endure because you ARE making a difference in many of these kids lives, I assure you. Hugs.

I am sorry too-this is not ok.

I just want to back up everything they said. I teach English and I would say I am well liked and seen as a good teacher to have among the kids generally but they just do not respect anyone. Not eachother and not us. I had a student go in my work bag recently and take a whole pack of gum. Actually multiple colleagues had small stuff like this taken. When we confront the kid they just say “it’s not a big deal it’s like $3.” They’re kinda like little boomers honestly … everyone else’s feelings don’t matter, they’re going to do what they want. I came home and cried a few weeks ago to my husband about what has happened when I used to love this job so much. I don’t think most adults can even imagine what it’s really like in a high school these days , even for the good teachers who the kids generally enjoy and admire.

And if you report to the parent(s), the vast majority blow it off and excuse it away. The many bad apples don’t fall far from rotten trees.

I’m the PP. I called a dad to say his son was coming to school but spending all day in the hall, bathroom, auditorium study hall and as a result was failing ALL of his classes. The dad literally said “Well I’ll talk to him and see what his concerns are, we don’t see this behavior at home.” Really, your son doesn’t skip class at home? That’s stunning. Same kid is going to fail this entire year and repeat the grade now because no matter how many times we called, got the counselor to ask them to come in for a meeting, nothing changed . It’s incredible .

I have had quite a few of them strange parent conferences in the last few years. Last year, I had a student in kindergarten who would elope multiple times per day, display odd behaviors like chewing/eating non-food items, etc. When we talked to her mom, she said her daughter didn't act like that at home. After more discussion, she shared that she only saw her daughter awake about an hour a day because she worked so much. She said she was gifted because he knew how to fix the iPad. She was on the iPad for the hour a day she spent with her. Mom said she would let her fall asleep with the iPad since she "loved it so much." No wonder it was WW3 when we tried to take the iPad away from her!

[Anonymous]

This has to do with writing feedback because???

[Anonymous]

These are just rants on parents now that have nothing to do with writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also often students are encouraged to meet with the teacher go over the writing in more detail and they can do that during study hall time.

There’s a whole long thread on DCUM filled with parents aghast — AGHAST! — that this is expected of their kids. Don’t teachers know that they’d rather use study hall to screw around with their friends and play on their phones?

Where is this exactly? I don't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also my understanding is that 5th, 8th, and 3nd of course no longer require actual essays like they used to
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learnin...ol-writing-resources

8th grade test still requires an essay. However, they are piloting a reading/writing test for 8th grade for next year. Not sure how much writing will be on it.

My point. There is no writing these teachers need to teach. So there is less writing to teach. And honestly chat gtp can probably give feedback in the margins if teachers don’t want to do it.

Most teachers do not have summers off as they work multiple jobs. They do not make enough money to take a two month vacation.

here's a great response from a teacher. Something about jobs and vacations in response to feedback and SOLs. Really following along.

Look there is no requirement for teachers to write in margins or whatever. You aren't getting demerits for teaching by students, parents, or your principal. You can't have it both ways where mom and dad don't even care if their kid attends class but yet somehow have such high standards to think you are so deficient by not writing comments all the time in the margins. Teachers need to grade work and they need to assign work. A short summative response is all that is done in private school (even very expensive ones around here) and all that is necessary in public. It's just in private they have more assignments with this feedback. My kid has gone through K-12 with less than 10 feedback summary statements and "margin" writing all 13 years. Maybe two a year in the upper grades. Somehow all those teachers have stayed in their job. This is a non-issue for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also my understanding is that 5th, 8th, and 3nd of course no longer require actual essays like they used to
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learnin...ol-writing-resources

8th grade test still requires an essay. However, they are piloting a reading/writing test for 8th grade for next year. Not sure how much writing will be on it.

My point. There is no writing these teachers need to teach. So there is less writing to teach. And honestly chat gtp can probably give feedback in the margins if teachers don’t want to do it.

Most teachers do not have summers off as they work multiple jobs. They do not make enough money to take a two month vacation.

here's a great response from a teacher. Something about jobs and vacations in response to feedback and SOLs. Really following along.

Look there is no requirement for teachers to write in margins or whatever. You aren't getting demerits for teaching by students, parents, or your principal. You can't have it both ways where mom and dad don't even care if their kid attends class but yet somehow have such high standards to think you are so deficient by not writing comments all the time in the margins. Teachers need to grade work and they need to assign work. A short summative response is all that is done in private school (even very expensive ones around here) and all that is necessary in public. It's just in private they have more assignments with this feedback. My kid has gone through K-12 with less than 10 feedback summary statements and "margin" writing all 13 years. Maybe two a year in the upper grades. Somehow all those teachers have stayed in their job. This is a non-issue for teachers.

I’m not sure what this response means. That teachers don’t leave a lot of comments, and they don’t get fired for being lazy? Is that the gist?

If so, it certainly doesn’t reflect my experience. Leaving feedback takes a significant amount of my time at home each week. I leave a ton, and I make students reflect and respond to my feedback. It’s meaningful work. It’s also one of the reasons I’m quitting. It’s too labor intensive to do this job correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also my understanding is that 5th, 8th, and 3nd of course no longer require actual essays like they used to
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learnin...ol-writing-resources

8th grade test still requires an essay. However, they are piloting a reading/writing test for 8th grade for next year. Not sure how much writing will be on it.

My point. There is no writing these teachers need to teach. So there is less writing to teach. And honestly chat gtp can probably give feedback in the margins if teachers don’t want to do it.

Most teachers do not have summers off as they work multiple jobs. They do not make enough money to take a two month vacation.

here's a great response from a teacher. Something about jobs and vacations in response to feedback and SOLs. Really following along.

Look there is no requirement for teachers to write in margins or whatever. You aren't getting demerits for teaching by students, parents, or your principal. You can't have it both ways where mom and dad don't even care if their kid attends class but yet somehow have such high standards to think you are so deficient by not writing comments all the time in the margins. Teachers need to grade work and they need to assign work. A short summative response is all that is done in private school (even very expensive ones around here) and all that is necessary in public. It's just in private they have more assignments with this feedback. My kid has gone through K-12 with less than 10 feedback summary statements and "margin" writing all 13 years. Maybe two a year in the upper grades. Somehow all those teachers have stayed in their job. This is a non-issue for teachers.

I’m not sure what this response means. That teachers don’t leave a lot of comments, and they don’t get fired for being lazy? Is that the gist?

If so, it certainly doesn’t reflect my experience. Leaving feedback takes a significant amount of my time at home each week. I leave a ton, and I make students reflect and respond to my feedback. It’s meaningful work. It’s also one of the reasons I’m quitting. It’s too labor intensive to do this job correctly.

This person gave a response about the summer when it had nothing to do with the topic. They couldn't stay on topic. That was the first part about the response.

The second response yes, there is no one requiring them to do this work and 90% of teachers are not doing this so they can call martyr all they want and say this is the only way to do the job but 90% of teachers have figured out how to do this job without doing this and there is no feedback they are getting from admin students or parents to do it so it's all in their head that this is "necessary to do the job right". No other school even private will require this so I guess they are out of teaching for good because of their own standards, not the schools kids or parents.

[Anonymous]

There is also a jobs forum. Why not go there if you want to talk about your job only? Everyone else does it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These are just rants on parents now that have nothing to do with writing.

LOL you mean like the rants we see every day on teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Then it sounds like it is time for you to move on. Your complaints sound valid. But, moving on, you'd be happier, or at least less bitter. And maybe the kids would get the meaningful feedback that they need from someone who still wants to be there.

I’m not the person you replied to but lol how clueless. Teachers moving on is what’s causing the problem. The mythical person you want to teach your kids isn’t coming and the more that leave the faster those remain burn out and leave too, and all that will be left are the teachers that can’t leave and those are generally not the ones you want. People with all the right training as well as infinite passion in the face of awful conditions does not exist at the scale FCPS needs.

Not clueless. It's spot on. Plenty of teachers at my kid's school are stellar. and have found a way to make it work and work well Then there are the ones that are not and have not (luckily for us that has been the exception not the rule). And we'd all be happier, them and us, if they just moved on. Conditions are not changing in the way that teachers want them to and so the "survival of the fittest" is going to have to act to cull out those who don't like the current situation. And let's face it, even paying more isn't going to fix those things.

Whatever.

I only have a few more years in FCPS. So in the end, this is not going to affect us. So, if you all want to go around hurling insults at parents for what are LEGITIMATE concerns, have at it. Literally, I don't care.

Those stellar teachers who make it work? They are sacrificing their nights and weekends. They just aren’t telling you that. Teachers who will “make it work and work well” give up their work / life balance.

Survival of the fittest? I don’t want my job to be a “survival” situation. Your word choice alone shows what you really think of teachers. We are expected to martyr ourselves: just shut up and take the conditions, or be “weak” and leave.

But by your own admission: you don’t care. I am not one of the posters hurling insults at parents, but I am a teacher who endures tons FROM parents on DCUM. I have to remind myself that most parents aren’t as disrespectful as what I see here.

- stellar teacher here

Well, good for you. I stand by my comments and some of the others on here. And, with only a few years left, no I really don't care. And as for "work/life" you have all summer off and are not the only profession that struggles with that. So, I really don't want to hear it.

I’m the PP.

I do not have summers off. I need to work a 2nd job because my pay isn’t sufficient. I also put in many unpaid hours prepping for the next year. I easily work 80 unpaid hours each summer.

You “don’t want to hear it.” Fine. Then don’t visit this thread. We take enough abuse as teachers, so there’s really no need for you to come here and pile it on.

It’s a good life lesson: If you have nothing nice to say…

Take your own advice. And anyone can visit what they choose.

Your issue is you don't like to be told you are not doing the full extent of your job. I get it. I wouldn't like it either. But that doesn't mean that the posters on here have not raised valid points. You just want to complain, throw a tantrum, etc. and have people say "it's ok that you do the minimum." It's not.

I know many teachers. None have second jobs other than maybe a fun one at Jiffy Lube so they can watch free concerts. Not one. They are traveling. HItting the pools. Beaches, etc. And good for them. They should be. So I'm always curious about these posts on here where they are all supposedly having second and third jobs . . . . And in any event, I have known LOTS of of people with multiple jobs. I used to be one of them.

that's nice. you probably know teachers who a) have spouses with high salaries and/or b) have been teaching for over 20 years and finally have a somewhat decent salary. I worked a summer job every year in my first 15 years of teaching. I could not afford not to.