Teachers not providing feedback IS a serious problem

[Anonymous]

My kid gets huge writing rubrics with very detailed feedback in ES, is this not done everywhere? We also get tests back and weekly word study packets sent home. I use them to research some things and have him review. Is this not common in FCPS?

My other child is in an ES AAP center school and has homework every night which helps us keep track of what he is doing. We have had conferences for both kids every year. I’m not sure why your experience has been different. This is a middling pyramid btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid gets huge writing rubrics with very detailed feedback in ES, is this not done everywhere? We also get tests back and weekly word study packets sent home. I use them to research some things and have him review. Is this not common in FCPS?

My other child is in an ES AAP center school and has homework every night which helps us keep track of what he is doing. We have had conferences for both kids every year. I’m not sure why your experience has been different. This is a middling pyramid btw.

My kid first got writing comments in high school. Before it was just a rubric grade if that. One year all writing was done at home and then the second child didn't even get that because they did away with homework so they got about 2 writing assignments that year.

[Anonymous]

I posted something similar in the VA forum, but I don't understand these complaints about teachers not giving feedback. My students' families get quarterly reports (on top of the report cards) letting them know in detail what their kid knows, doesn't know and what we're working on next (plus one thing parents can do at home to help). They know how many letter sounds they know (and I provide specifics of the ones known and not known), how many sight words, how many CVC words they can read. They know how fluent they are in math, what they can do in writing, etc.

I believe you all, but it's just shocking to me how poorly run other people's schools are. Feedback is basic. My 5 year old students know exactly what they are working on. They all have a list of what they are learning and can show anyone who walks in the room which list they're learning (differentiated for everyone).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I normally skip over all the FCPS/teacher bashing posts here, but the one post about teachers not providing feedback really got me thinking.

If the new norm is that teachers just put a score in the grade book and it’s on the student to come talk to the teachers to understand why they got that score, we have a serious problem. I can’t imagine not getting an essay back that I wrote without any feedback on how to improve my writing. Let alone a math test…

This is a core function to learning in my opinion and not something that can just be done away with or on a request only basis.

Teachers say this is because they are overworked and have too many students. The lack of teachers at the moment probably isn’t making this any easier. And with all the mud being thrown in their face on a daily basis, I can’t imagine anyone would want to go into teaching. So now we have a retention and recruiting problem…

At some point someone needs to throw up the red flag on a national level and turn this ship around. And by that I mean addressing the real issues and not these BS “CRT” and “GET THE PORN OUT OF SCHOOLS” distractions. The real issues i see are:

1. Retention- (fix this by better pay, benefits)
2. Recruiting- this is a nationwide issue. Perhaps full ride scholarships for teachers like the military does with ROTC. No one wants to go into student debt to get treated like a subhuman
3. Morale- give the teachers their dignity back. They are professionals and should be treated as such. No, Karen, just because you have children in school does not mean the teachers work for you or you should be able to dictate how they run their classroom. They are public servants - like police or judges. Treat them with respect.
4. State Testing- just get rid of it already. It takes away from the students learning and puts pressure on teachers to only teach towards the test (this is what happens when you tie teacher raises and school funding to test scores). Let’s be honest- rich people care about it because the high test scores affect their property value. We don’t need to be making decisions about public education to benefit some rich people and their property values

I’m sure there are a lot of other problems, but this really jumped out to me. Just my thoughts. And this isn’t just high school- my middle schooler also hasn’t received feedback on assignments all year

I agree with you on most points but as a former high school English teacher who left the profession because I was working 60-80 hours a week and still never done:

I absolutely support teachers not writing in margins of papers. Seriously. For the vast majority of students it is a complete waste of time. I’d spend hours and hours writing detailed feedback…let’s say, 10 mins per student x 120 students = 20 hours of work. 20 hours! And I got 5 hours is planning time per week to plan all of my lessons, not even counting grading. So it was never done, and I was always feeling inadequate and a failure and stressed.

Of those 120 students, fewer than 10 would actually read the comments, and maybe 5 per assignment might ask for the chance to re-write something. The rest just looked for a grade and threw out the paper…or at best maybe skimmed comments looking for praise and ignored everything else.

I might have at most 5-10% of students who acted upon suggestions even when I gave time to do revisions and rewriting in class.

So, of those 20 hours…only 1 hour actually had any impact on student achievement. I literally gave up that many hours every week that I could have spent with my friends, family, fitness, and my own goals and joys…all
Of which I neglected because I was constantly grading papers.

Now, if I were to go back (and if I could turn back time and get back those literally YEARS of my life I lost trying to earn gold stars for being a great English teacher) I would give just a grade and would conference with students in class who asked. Each student could get 5-10 mins and 3 actionable tips for improvement. All in the school day. They’d be able to revise. Win/win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem is that teaching is not a respected job in NOVA, even by many teachers. How could it be when teachers have access to so many other high-paying jobs? Why would you be a teacher when you could work for X, lower your stress, earn more money, and double your prestige?

Plus, there isn't the sense of community in NOVA like there is in other places. Families are always coming and going, moving in and out, there is less permanency to the whole thing. Schooling can feel very disconnected as a whole.

Where we live now, there are three parent-teacher conferences for K-12 during the school year. Three, not only one like in FCPS. If your child is failing, you receive a print out up to the minute of your child's grades on all assignments, well before the quarter ends. There is a sense of community, and the teachers work with the parents, there is a "it takes a village" mentality around education that I never felt in NOVA and we were there for more than ten years in that system.

A big problem in NOVA not just the size of the area but the county wide school districts. I assume where you live now is smaller? It's easier to build community when districts are town based or the like. I wish we could break FCPS into smaller districts -- even just north and south or east and west. It's not possible to please such a large area with such a wide range of interests and concerns.

I think people getting called back to the office will help the teacher shortage a bit. When most people are working from home full time, it's hard to to sell a job that requires people to be in by a certain time every day with zero flexibility. If 100% work from home jobs become more rare, people who feel called to be educators will be more likely to choose (or return to) that option. It's not like offices and corporate environments don't have their share of stress, toxic politics, micromanaging bosses, and other BS. People were just being shielded from all that by being allowed to work from home. If we care about the school systems and education in this country we should stop advocating for so much remote work. It pulls teachers out of the profession.

Nope.... as a teacher I don't care that people work from home. I do care that I make less than most professions, have a ton of work, and get very little respect. The entitlement from parents and students in this area is unbelievable. Schools as a whole are toxic working environments which are understaffed. It's not the remote work but nice try on trying to determine why there is a teacher shortage.

Signed an experienced teacher who just gave her notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fcps does not have any teacher parent conferences anymore. They are all by request only. Another fcps fail

This is absolutely NOT true. Maybe it is true at YOUR school. But at my school we have to track down every parent and have a conference by the 2nd week of November. It’s been the expectation every year for at least the last 10 years. And getting in conferences with no unencumbered teacher work days, non-responsive parents, and multiple parent no shows is one hell of a difficult task.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I need a better profession. Teachers make a lot more than I do. Maybe they should open it up more. I actually know a lot of people that want to get into the field, but they don't want to do all the training that goes along with it. They all want to be subs or assistants.

Oh yeah I’m rollin’ in the dough. 12 years in as a career switcher with a masters and I can’t afford a 2 bedroom apartment. Haven’t taken a vacation since I started teaching, drive a 15-year-old hand-me-down Toyota and never eat out. I work every summer. Yeah, this job is cake. 🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fcps does not have any teacher parent conferences anymore. They are all by request only. Another fcps fail

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a better profession. Teachers make a lot more than I do. Maybe they should open it up more. I actually know a lot of people that want to get into the field, but they don't want to do all the training that goes along with it. They all want to be subs or assistants.

Oh yeah I’m rollin’ in the dough. 12 years in as a career switcher with a masters and I can’t afford a 2 bedroom apartment. Haven’t taken a vacation since I started teaching, drive a 15-year-old hand-me-down Toyota and never eat out. I work every summer. Yeah, this job is cake. 🤣

I more shocked that she knows a lot of people who want to get into the field. If there was an opportunity, it was this year. They hired a bunch of Teacher Residents with no experience or credentials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I need a better profession. Teachers make a lot more than I do. Maybe they should open it up more. I actually know a lot of people that want to get into the field, but they don't want to do all the training that goes along with it. They all want to be subs or assistants.

Then quit being a bum and apply. Join us for all the riches and rewards. You’ll do it so much better than we do and be more grateful for the pittance of pay compared to the amount of work you’re expected to do outside of your compensated contract time. Come on, we’re waiting for you, teacher of the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I normally skip over all the FCPS/teacher bashing posts here, but the one post about teachers not providing feedback really got me thinking.

If the new norm is that teachers just put a score in the grade book and it’s on the student to come talk to the teachers to understand why they got that score, we have a serious problem. I can’t imagine not getting an essay back that I wrote without any feedback on how to improve my writing. Let alone a math test…

This is a core function to learning in my opinion and not something that can just be done away with or on a request only basis.

Teachers say this is because they are overworked and have too many students. The lack of teachers at the moment probably isn’t making this any easier. And with all the mud being thrown in their face on a daily basis, I can’t imagine anyone would want to go into teaching. So now we have a retention and recruiting problem…

At some point someone needs to throw up the red flag on a national level and turn this ship around. And by that I mean addressing the real issues and not these BS “CRT” and “GET THE PORN OUT OF SCHOOLS” distractions. The real issues i see are:

1. Retention- (fix this by better pay, benefits)
2. Recruiting- this is a nationwide issue. Perhaps full ride scholarships for teachers like the military does with ROTC. No one wants to go into student debt to get treated like a subhuman
3. Morale- give the teachers their dignity back. They are professionals and should be treated as such. No, Karen, just because you have children in school does not mean the teachers work for you or you should be able to dictate how they run their classroom. They are public servants - like police or judges. Treat them with respect.
4. State Testing- just get rid of it already. It takes away from the students learning and puts pressure on teachers to only teach towards the test (this is what happens when you tie teacher raises and school funding to test scores). Let’s be honest- rich people care about it because the high test scores affect their property value. We don’t need to be making decisions about public education to benefit some rich people and their property values

I’m sure there are a lot of other problems, but this really jumped out to me. Just my thoughts. And this isn’t just high school- my middle schooler also hasn’t received feedback on assignments all year

I agree with you on most points but as a former high school English teacher who left the profession because I was working 60-80 hours a week and still never done:

I absolutely support teachers not writing in margins of papers. Seriously. For the vast majority of students it is a complete waste of time. I’d spend hours and hours writing detailed feedback…let’s say, 10 mins per student x 120 students = 20 hours of work. 20 hours! And I got 5 hours is planning time per week to plan all of my lessons, not even counting grading. So it was never done, and I was always feeling inadequate and a failure and stressed.

Of those 120 students, fewer than 10 would actually read the comments, and maybe 5 per assignment might ask for the chance to re-write something. The rest just looked for a grade and threw out the paper…or at best maybe skimmed comments looking for praise and ignored everything else.

I might have at most 5-10% of students who acted upon suggestions even when I gave time to do revisions and rewriting in class.

So, of those 20 hours…only 1 hour actually had any impact on student achievement. I literally gave up that many hours every week that I could have spent with my friends, family, fitness, and my own goals and joys…all
Of which I neglected because I was constantly grading papers.

Now, if I were to go back (and if I could turn back time and get back those literally YEARS of my life I lost trying to earn gold stars for being a great English teacher) I would give just a grade and would conference with students in class who asked. Each student could get 5-10 mins and 3 actionable tips for improvement. All in the school day. They’d be able to revise. Win/win.

Virginia state law says secondary teachers are to have 20:1 students per teacher. English is just a lot more writing and time. But fcps gets away with not doing this somehow. All classes are not equal and English should have smaller classes than the other core classes

[Anonymous]

Meant to say the state law for English only is 20:1. For the others there is no class size limit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I normally skip over all the FCPS/teacher bashing posts here, but the one post about teachers not providing feedback really got me thinking.

If the new norm is that teachers just put a score in the grade book and it’s on the student to come talk to the teachers to understand why they got that score, we have a serious problem. I can’t imagine not getting an essay back that I wrote without any feedback on how to improve my writing. Let alone a math test…

This is a core function to learning in my opinion and not something that can just be done away with or on a request only basis.

Teachers say this is because they are overworked and have too many students. The lack of teachers at the moment probably isn’t making this any easier. And with all the mud being thrown in their face on a daily basis, I can’t imagine anyone would want to go into teaching. So now we have a retention and recruiting problem…

At some point someone needs to throw up the red flag on a national level and turn this ship around. And by that I mean addressing the real issues and not these BS “CRT” and “GET THE PORN OUT OF SCHOOLS” distractions. The real issues i see are:

1. Retention- (fix this by better pay, benefits)
2. Recruiting- this is a nationwide issue. Perhaps full ride scholarships for teachers like the military does with ROTC. No one wants to go into student debt to get treated like a subhuman
3. Morale- give the teachers their dignity back. They are professionals and should be treated as such. No, Karen, just because you have children in school does not mean the teachers work for you or you should be able to dictate how they run their classroom. They are public servants - like police or judges. Treat them with respect.
4. State Testing- just get rid of it already. It takes away from the students learning and puts pressure on teachers to only teach towards the test (this is what happens when you tie teacher raises and school funding to test scores). Let’s be honest- rich people care about it because the high test scores affect their property value. We don’t need to be making decisions about public education to benefit some rich people and their property values

I’m sure there are a lot of other problems, but this really jumped out to me. Just my thoughts. And this isn’t just high school- my middle schooler also hasn’t received feedback on assignments all year

I agree with you on most points but as a former high school English teacher who left the profession because I was working 60-80 hours a week and still never done:

I absolutely support teachers not writing in margins of papers. Seriously. For the vast majority of students it is a complete waste of time. I’d spend hours and hours writing detailed feedback…let’s say, 10 mins per student x 120 students = 20 hours of work. 20 hours! And I got 5 hours is planning time per week to plan all of my lessons, not even counting grading. So it was never done, and I was always feeling inadequate and a failure and stressed.

Of those 120 students, fewer than 10 would actually read the comments, and maybe 5 per assignment might ask for the chance to re-write something. The rest just looked for a grade and threw out the paper…or at best maybe skimmed comments looking for praise and ignored everything else.

I might have at most 5-10% of students who acted upon suggestions even when I gave time to do revisions and rewriting in class.

So, of those 20 hours…only 1 hour actually had any impact on student achievement. I literally gave up that many hours every week that I could have spent with my friends, family, fitness, and my own goals and joys…all
Of which I neglected because I was constantly grading papers.

Now, if I were to go back (and if I could turn back time and get back those literally YEARS of my life I lost trying to earn gold stars for being a great English teacher) I would give just a grade and would conference with students in class who asked. Each student could get 5-10 mins and 3 actionable tips for improvement. All in the school day. They’d be able to revise. Win/win.

Virginia state law says secondary teachers are to have 20:1 students per teacher. English is just a lot more writing and time. But fcps gets away with not doing this somehow. All classes are not equal and English should have smaller classes than the other core classes

They take the average of all the English classes by playing with the numbers. Many regular ed classes have 33 kids in them, most sped classes have 5. Average that out and it can look like 20:1. Smoke and mirrors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid gets huge writing rubrics with very detailed feedback in ES, is this not done everywhere? We also get tests back and weekly word study packets sent home. I use them to research some things and have him review. Is this not common in FCPS?

My other child is in an ES AAP center school and has homework every night which helps us keep track of what he is doing. We have had conferences for both kids every year. I’m not sure why your experience has been different. This is a middling pyramid btw.

We use the FCPS “Usage and Mechanics” and “”Written Expression” rubrics to score student writing. We staple it to the final copy. Students receive feedback during the entire writing process when we meet in writing conferences.

Third Grade Teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I need a better profession. Teachers make a lot more than I do. Maybe they should open it up more. I actually know a lot of people that want to get into the field, but they don't want to do all the training that goes along with it. They all want to be subs or assistants.

This is hilarious. If these people can't even get past the first hurdle of doing "all the training" that goes along with being a teacher then they'd never survive as teachers and shouldn't even bother. There's non-stop burdens on your time that have a major impact on your ability to plan and teach the students with training being one of the least time consuming of those things.