william & mary admissions is problematic and classist

[Anonymous]

W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

W&M meets 100% of demonstrated financial need in state. Even more than UVA typically. My middle class friend's son only pays about 18k/yr total. Cheaper than any other major public he got accepted at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

W&M meets 100% of demonstrated financial need in state. Even more than UVA typically. My middle class friend's son only pays about 18k/yr total. Cheaper than any other major public he got accepted at.

Doesn't change the fact that it's geared towards professional/graduate schools, lacks recruitment due to it's small size, lacks the engineering/IT degrees that tend to be greatest movers from low/middle-income to high income with a bachelors, etc.

Covering demonstrate need is great for low income, but not for middle income. Most middle-income families get donut holed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

W&M meets 100% of demonstrated financial need in state. Even more than UVA typically. My middle class friend's son only pays about 18k/yr total. Cheaper than any other major public he got accepted at.

Doesn't change the fact that it's geared towards professional/graduate schools, lacks recruitment due to it's small size, lacks the engineering/IT degrees that tend to be greatest movers from low/middle-income to high income with a bachelors, etc.

Covering demonstrate need is great for low income, but not for middle income. Most middle-income families get donut holed.

I have to disagree with the "lacks recruitment" statement My DS just graduated from W&M last year. He landed a very high paying job with ZERO support from his family - other than listening to him talk about the process and bouncing ideas off of him when he received four very generous offers. My DS did all his job search with the career center on campus. He had his job offers before Thanksgiving of his senior year. And this was during Covid when almost every single one of his contacts with a company was done virtually. W&M was just recently ranked the #5 public school in the country for salaries in finance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

W&M meets 100% of demonstrated financial need in state. Even more than UVA typically. My middle class friend's son only pays about 18k/yr total. Cheaper than any other major public he got accepted at.

Doesn't change the fact that it's geared towards professional/graduate schools, lacks recruitment due to it's small size, lacks the engineering/IT degrees that tend to be greatest movers from low/middle-income to high income with a bachelors, etc.

Covering demonstrate need is great for low income, but not for middle income. Most middle-income families get donut holed.

Source for your assertion that it "lacks recruitment"? Being outside a major metro area does NOT keep interested employers away. You think recruiters don't go to UVA either? And business majors from W&M in particular do very well in the job market.

[Anonymous]

This thread should be titled “ED is problematic”.

I like EA, but ED gives all the power to the school when they already have so much. It’s really early in senior year to decide permanently too.

It would be great if everyone had EA, there was no ED, and you could makes your choices just based on where you were accepted.

[Anonymous]

As a Marylander, I wish we had the choices that residents of the Commonwealth do. To me, W&M offers a different product - basically a LAC experience at an instate rate. We have nothing comparable and my kid can’t get that type of education for $40k. If not the product for you, try one of the other amazing Va schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

+10. Same scenario with my DD

Same here, but last year. They pretty much expect kids to choose before most of them have truly had an opportunity to do a deep dive and figure out what they want. They change so much through Senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

Exactly. Why is your kid coming into senior year without having thought about this before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has the highest median parental income out of all public universities for a reason.

Honestly, low and middle-income students shouldn't be attending W&M to begin with. LACs all tend to be specialized in graduate/professional school, which many low and middle income cannot go to without having parental support throughout ones 20's. The school doesn't have any engineering or tech-related majors (except CS), which are the ones that pay well with only a bachelors. It's too small and far away from major metros for many companies to recruit from, so many students get internships/jobs with parental networks. Plus it's easily the most expensive public at $40k/year for in-state.

W&M meets 100% of demonstrated financial need in state. Even more than UVA typically. My middle class friend's son only pays about 18k/yr total. Cheaper than any other major public he got accepted at.

Doesn't change the fact that it's geared towards professional/graduate schools, lacks recruitment due to it's small size, lacks the engineering/IT degrees that tend to be greatest movers from low/middle-income to high income with a bachelors, etc.

Covering demonstrate need is great for low income, but not for middle income. Most middle-income families get donut holed.

I have to disagree with the "lacks recruitment" statement My DS just graduated from W&M last year. He landed a very high paying job with ZERO support from his family - other than listening to him talk about the process and bouncing ideas off of him when he received four very generous offers. My DS did all his job search with the career center on campus. He had his job offers before Thanksgiving of his senior year. And this was during Covid when almost every single one of his contacts with a company was done virtually. W&M was just recently ranked the #5 public school in the country for salaries in finance.

+1 We are middle class and have zero connections in the field my kid chose which isn't known for being a high-paying one, but he landed a great job before graduation through the W&M career services--solid-paying, good growth opportunities, work he enjoys. Job offer was spring his senior year. Really happy with how things turned out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Marylander, I wish we had the choices that residents of the Commonwealth do. To me, W&M offers a different product - basically a LAC experience at an instate rate. We have nothing comparable and my kid can’t get that type of education for $40k. If not the product for you, try one of the other amazing Va schools.

+1. And recruitment is great at W@M. Don’t know why pp has to bash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread should be titled “ED is problematic”.

I like EA, but ED gives all the power to the school when they already have so much. It’s really early in senior year to decide permanently too.

It would be great if everyone had EA, there was no ED, and you could makes your choices just based on where you were accepted.

But college admissions is a seller’s market right now so most good institutions offer EA or ED which helps out the LMC and MC because if you want W&M you can get in and file only one application. I know if only one university that offers only RD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

They’re basically private and are not public.

They are public.

They do not publish a lot of data that the PASSHE schools must.

F course they do. It’s called SCHEV. No other state supplies such information

PP was talking about Temple & Penn State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA has ED but it doesn't help that much to ED. WM, on the other hand, is way easier to get in if you ED. And people have figured it out. Lots of pretty low stat kids (especially boys) at dc's school ED to WM and get in.

Define what you consider to be “low stats” —8 APs, 1460 and wgpa of 4.4?
I also think any adult making a judgement about another person’s child at the school their own kid goes to is very immature and nasty. You can’t know the details of what these kids had on their application or what they wrote in essays or how much they showed they were a good fit with the institution. Let’s just stop being judgmental and acting like we know personal info when we don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Marylander, I wish we had the choices that residents of the Commonwealth do. To me, W&M offers a different product - basically a LAC experience at an instate rate. We have nothing comparable and my kid can’t get that type of education for $40k. If not the product for you, try one of the other amazing Va schools.

+1. And recruitment is great at W@M. Don’t know why pp has to bash

+1 The career outcomes for W&M are great when you compare major to major with larger schools.