william & mary admissions is problematic and classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

What? You mean organizations try to take in more than they spend, ensuring their ability to continue to operate? It's an outrage!

Maybe, I dunno, they should be properly funded by taxpayer money?

They have plenty of money. William and Mary has a $1.3 billion endowment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

Very much so. As a foreigner who went to university for free in my country, it's obvious to me.
However now we're here and are forced to play by new rules. My kid got a cipher postcard from W&M. Hope he gets in.

What country?
Those countries usually take half of your income as tax.
There's no such thing as free.

The problem with US systems is more with fairness, not a cost comparison to European countries who pay 50% tax.

France. I would rather pay more taxes in the US, and have colleges be affordable for more people. I can't send my kids to French unis currently, because their post secondary system is being overhauled and is not working well for French expats. However, France has very affordable healthcare and very little gun violence. But there are more economic opportunities in the US. I'm not blind to my country's faults, or the USA's faults, but it seems they're both extremes in some things: timely example, the CRAZY social upheaval the retirement age reform has caused, led by over-powerful unions. They've even got students to strike - idiot students who don't understand that to fund retirement for their generation, they need to work 2 more years!

I wish there was a middle ground.

[Anonymous]

You can look at the NPC at W&M (and every other school to compare financial aid packages)--we found they were VERY accurate when we put in our information accurately. What you are unable to compare is merit aid. So really the issue is not a class issue in terms of financial need since need-based financial aid is unaffected and you can see what each school determines is your financial need--and you can look at on their CDS to see how much of that tends to be loans etc.

I think the people who are most affected are UMC who don't have a lot of college savings (aka known as donut hole families) who would find it tightens their lifestyle to pay what the FAFSA and the colleges determine as their financial need and therefore want to compare merit aid packages not based on financial need.

Also, you can look at the impact of ED vs not for individual schools--look at the student profiles of who is admitted not percent admitted. Some schools it is a big advantage others it is not. You can't go by averages.

[Anonymous]

UVA Only recently brought back ED after about a 15 year hiatus. The first ED class back was for the class of 2020 I think. My kid was accepted class of 2021 and I just looked at the stats again. Was a definite bump just a few years ago.
Overall offers: 965
Total VA offers: 617 (39% offer rate)
Total OOS offers: 348 (26% offer rate)
Enrollment Goal: ~3,750

Has dropped to 31% In state and 17% out of state. Crazy.

[Anonymous]

I get your point OP, but W&M doesn't fill a large amount of their class with ED and maybe they take these facts into consideration when considering RD applicants with financial need? Maybe they are accepted with lower than average stats too. This would mean that the RD applicants without need must have super high stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True, W&M does not have EA like UVA. However, they have a W&M scholarship for low-income students that covers 100% of the tuition costs, which UVA does not.

A friend of DD got into UVA (EA) & W&M(RD), was leaning towards UVA but the scholarship was too good to pass up on, and she is now attending W&M.
Overall, it looks like W&M ED filled about 1/3rd of the class of 2026 with ED.

Hello there, there’s the 100% Walentas first-gen scholarship now which is just as prestigious as the b Jefferson. UVA is also partnered with Questbridge.

I am annoyed too when rich private school kids from Holton-Arms or Harkness get full rides to UVA.

[Anonymous]

*Harker lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

What? You mean organizations try to take in more than they spend, ensuring their ability to continue to operate? It's an outrage!

Maybe, I dunno, they should be properly funded by taxpayer money?

Yeah, in a just world, but not the one we live in.

[Anonymous]

I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

+10. Same scenario with my DD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

Very much so. As a foreigner who went to university for free in my country, it's obvious to me.
However now we're here and are forced to play by new rules. My kid got a cipher postcard from W&M. Hope he gets in.

What country?
Those countries usually take half of your income as tax.
There's no such thing as free.

The problem with US systems is more with fairness, not a cost comparison to European countries who pay 50% tax.

DP

Germany
the Netherlands

these countries all provide FREE university education, often in English and you as a parent don't have to pay a cent of tax. There's a "tuition" levy of about $40 per semester or equivalent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

Very much so. As a foreigner who went to university for free in my country, it's obvious to me.
However now we're here and are forced to play by new rules. My kid got a cipher postcard from W&M. Hope he gets in.

What country?
Those countries usually take half of your income as tax.
There's no such thing as free.

The problem with US systems is more with fairness, not a cost comparison to European countries who pay 50% tax.

DP

Germany
the Netherlands

these countries all provide FREE university education,* often in English and you as a parent don't have to pay a cent of tax. There's a "tuition" levy of about $40 per semester or equivalent

For the small subset of students who the believe deserve a university education. Those not deemed worthy have been placed on a lower track for years by that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

Very much so. As a foreigner who went to university for free in my country, it's obvious to me.
However now we're here and are forced to play by new rules. My kid got a cipher postcard from W&M. Hope he gets in.

What country?
Those countries usually take half of your income as tax.
There's no such thing as free.

The problem with US systems is more with fairness, not a cost comparison to European countries who pay 50% tax.

DP

Germany
the Netherlands

these countries all provide FREE university education,* often in English and you as a parent don't have to pay a cent of tax. There's a "tuition" levy of about $40 per semester or equivalent

For the small subset of students who the believe deserve a university education. Those not deemed worthy have been placed on a lower track for years by that point.

Exactly. It's great for those whose university attendance is subsidized by all those who cannot attend.

[Anonymous]

ED is in line with SLAC admissions, which rarely have an EA round. Smaller schools need to more tightly control class size and composition, which they cannot do in EA. They would go into RD not knowing if there is a a glut of girls or OOS or STEM planning to accept for EA. Most state schools are large enough that it evens out.

OP— how would you feel if WM went into RD without a handle on which EA kids will accept, and they ended up 70% female, or 60% OOS or significantly overenrolled?

Small schools use ED because they need to be precise in fillings and balancing a class. Read Seligo”# book. Using ED enables a small school to round out a class.