william & mary admissions is problematic and classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

+1 as well

It's a way to tell the school that you can easily afford it

-1 No, this is not true. Our kid did ED and we cannot easily afford it. That's why we entered our data into the NPC and found out how much our Expected Family Contribution would be for the school. ED is not binding if you ran the NPC with accurate data and got an EFC different from the one you were offered by the school. Our HHI is 110k and our EFC was 32k--we knew that our kid would qualify for 5.5k loans for the 1st year and the remaining 2.5k would be a financial need grant. That's a stretch for us, but it's doable. No regrets here.

[Anonymous]

So I heard from CC that W&M RD is coming out this Friday at 5 pm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

This was my DC 2 years ago and, yes, DC was waitlisted at W&M. Chose the study abroad option for 1st semester, and it worked out great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

They should since their admission rate does not reflect that of a public university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.



No, OP, all you have to do is file the FAFSA earlier - then it will be available at the time off the ED decision if the college is a need aware institution. And, of course, a student can always get out of an ED decision is they later determine in good faith that they cannot afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

What? You mean organizations try to take in more than they spend, ensuring their ability to continue to operate? It's an outrage!

Maybe, I dunno, they should be properly funded by taxpayer money?

They have plenty of money. William and Mary has a $1.3 billion endowment

Likely highly restricted, which is not helpful for routine operating expenses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

That doesn’t negate the fact that Ed is classist, and only having Ed (and no ea) is problematic at a public school. Even wm says, Ed isn’t for you if you need fI aid. Why should only well off kids get to signal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

That doesn’t negate the fact that Ed is classist, and only having Ed (and no ea) is problematic at a public school. Even wm says, Ed isn’t for you if you need fI aid. Why should only well off kids get to signal?

It doesn't say ED isn't for you if you need financial aid. It says ED isn't for you if you don't feel you can afford the number the NPC gives you for financial aid or want to compare financial offers. That's just being transparent about what ED is. They EXPLICITLY say that ED vs RD does not affect the size of your financial aid offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

That doesn’t negate the fact that Ed is classist, and only having Ed (and no ea) is problematic at a public school. Even wm says, Ed isn’t for you if you need fI aid. Why should only well off kids get to signal?

It doesn't say ED isn't for you if you need financial aid. It says ED isn't for you if you don't feel you can afford the number the NPC gives you for financial aid or want to compare financial offers. That's just being transparent about what ED is. They EXPLICITLY say that ED vs RD does not affect the size of your financial aid offer.

Adding: You'll get the same offer for financial aid RD so if you can't afford it early you're not going to be able to afford it late either. It sounds to me like it's an issue for people who CAN afford the number the NPC gives them but want to optimize the money. That's totally fine, but then you accept the fact that it's not your first choice school. Because you're going to get the exact same financial aid award whether you apply ED vs RD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

Op here. Where else is public besides Ramapo college of nj? (Also, at least ramapo offers early action. Find me another public that only offers ED and not EA. WM wouldn’t bug me so much if it offered EA but it doesn’t, which makes no sense as a public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

This was my DC 2 years ago and, yes, DC was waitlisted at W&M. Chose the study abroad option for 1st semester, and it worked out great.

What’s the study abroad option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

This was my DC 2 years ago and, yes, DC was waitlisted at W&M. Chose the study abroad option for 1st semester, and it worked out great.

What’s the study abroad option?

Nm I had no idea, that’s kind of cool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All colleges in the USA, unlike the rest of the world, are basically #1 a business, money-making venture, whatever you call them otherwise, however they get their funding.

Very much so. As a foreigner who went to university for free in my country, it's obvious to me.
However now we're here and are forced to play by new rules. My kid got a cipher postcard from W&M. Hope he gets in.

What country?
Those countries usually take half of your income as tax.
There's no such thing as free.

The problem with US systems is more with fairness, not a cost comparison to European countries who pay 50% tax.

If we added up what we pay for health insurance, social security taxes, Medicare taxes, and federal taxes (and other things), I bet we get close to 50%.

As someone who has a small business and knows exactly these costs, your 50% is grossly exaggerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

This was my DC 2 years ago and, yes, DC was waitlisted at W&M. Chose the study abroad option for 1st semester, and it worked out great.

What’s the study abroad option?

Nm I had no idea, that’s kind of cool

This is my DC’s goal — to just get on WL if not outright admitted and then can enter Spring semester. U take Fall semester classes somewhere else, guaranteed admission Spring semester. It’s called Spring Pathways.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/how-to-apply/waitlistfaqs/guaranteed-admission-pathway/index.php