william & mary admissions is problematic and classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

As a PSU grad, it’s such a fraud school.

Horrible value

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

That doesn’t negate the fact that Ed is classist, and only having Ed (and no ea) is problematic at a public school. Even wm says, Ed isn’t for you if you need fI aid. Why should only well off kids get to signal?

I don’t see how it’s “classist” at all. Simply run the NPC and take a photo if it as proof. File your FAFSA before applying ED and it’s exactly the same as RD. And if you can’t afford it, there’s an out. How is that classist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

Op here. Where else is public besides Ramapo college of nj? (Also, at least ramapo offers early action. Find me another public that only offers ED and not EA. WM wouldn’t bug me so much if it offered EA but it doesn’t, which makes no sense as a public.

NP Other publics on that list are:
TCNJ
Christopher Newport
Miami U of OH
SUNY Maritime
SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
Salisbury

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I disagree with you.

+1
We love ED (though didn’t apply to W&M). It allows students to tell the school they are their first choice, rather than just a fallback in case your other choices reject you. Worked well for us.

+1 as well

It's a way to tell the school that you can easily afford it

It's a way for the school to know you will actually show up if accepted. If you want to play the field, feel free - but quit whining when you are deferred/rejected. And you can still get merit/financial aid in ED.

[Anonymous]

Virginia Tech has ED too.

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/apply/decision-plans.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

I've heard this about W&M wanting to go private a few times, but just out of my curiosity, do you have any article or anecdote confirming this? Where does this claim that W&M wants to go private come from?

In some ways, it makes sense for W&M. It was private until the early 1900s. I remember on the tour of W&M w/ our DCs, I think the Director of Admissions was hinting at the ways the state of Virginia limits W&M, i.e. preventing them from opening a med school was the example the Director gave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

I've heard this about W&M wanting to go private a few times, but just out of my curiosity, do you have any article or anecdote confirming this? Where does this claim that W&M wants to go private come from?

In some ways, it makes sense for W&M. It was private until the early 1900s. I remember on the tour of W&M w/ our DCs, I think the Director of Admissions was hinting at the ways the state of Virginia limits W&M, i.e. preventing them from opening a med school was the example the Director gave.

W&M won't go private. The state schools just look for more autonomy as public funding declines, but that is different from going private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

Op here. Where else is public besides Ramapo college of nj? (Also, at least ramapo offers early action. Find me another public that only offers ED and not EA. WM wouldn’t bug me so much if it offered EA but it doesn’t, which makes no sense as a public.

What would EA give you? You won't have any new financial information--the NPC tells you what their financial aid offer will be. You'll have to wait for other offers to compare. You won't know about merit awards because those wait for the full pool of candidates. At W&M the accepted student ED profile is near identical to the accepted student RD profile, so it's not like you can get in with lower grades/scores if you ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of ED generally. I think it serves the colleges much more than the students. And, especially not for public universities. VA is unusual in having it at so many schools.

My DD was interested in W&M but not 100% on board since she was looking at a variety of other schools. So she, rightly IMO, did not ED. But had to be aware that with her stats she was in that range where I think she would have gotten in ED but is unlikely to in RD (still waiting on that). Her various interests/priorities have evolved over the process and I think she now probably would prefer W&M but it's not likely to an option. She has other good (and less expensive) options so it's fine but it irks me that colleges expect students to make these decisions so early in the process, mainly to make their jobs a bit easier.

My daughter was in the exact same situation but chose the opposite path: she did apply ED and was accepted, even though she was not 100% sure that she wanted W&M. I don't think she would have gotten in RD since she's just your average NOVA kid. A little buyer's remorse, but mostly she's glad that the decision is made. Ultimately, I think she would have still chosen W&M if she had been able to weigh all of her acceptances together. It is a stretch for us financially since W&M is by far the most expensive public school in Virginia--the financial aid package was on-target with our NPC, but not a penny over and was all loans and work-study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

They’re basically private and are not public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

They’re basically private and are not public.

They are public.

[Anonymous]

William and Mary has the lowest net cost among Virginia public schools for lower income, in-state students. This information can be seen on the NPC.

https://tamingthehighcostofcollege.com/net-price-of-virginia-colleges-by-income/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

UVa’s Law School and their Darden (MBA) business school already are private, taking no state funds at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

I've heard this about W&M wanting to go private a few times, but just out of my curiosity, do you have any article or anecdote confirming this? Where does this claim that W&M wants to go private come from?

In some ways, it makes sense for W&M. It was private until the early 1900s. I remember on the tour of W&M w/ our DCs, I think the Director of Admissions was hinting at the ways the state of Virginia limits W&M, i.e. preventing them from opening a med school was the example the Director gave.

There was talk a few years ago about moving EVMS under W&M. The EVMS folks I knew at the time liked that proposal. Not sure what ultimately happened though.