The opposite of overscheduled

[Anonymous]

To the posters suggesting MS kids don't need ANY ECs...here's something to think about. In addition to making kids more well-rounded, allowing them to be part of a team, getting them active and fit, providing creative and artistic outlets, fostering healthy competition, instilling grit, nourishing a passion, and on and on, ECs at this age lead to diversified, multiple friend groups! It's so important that MS kids don't just have one group of friends. Recipe for disaster! Literally ZERO ECs at the middle school age is, in fact, under-scheduled in my book. Even with like one sport and one something else a season, there is plenty of time in a week for MS to spend chilling out with friends.

Also, there won't even be any kids to "hang" out with in the after-school hours because all the other kids will be doing ECs.

[Anonymous]

I guess that it's neighborhood dependent. My friends and I did activities, but we still had plenty of time to hang out and be kids. Activities just didn't take over our lives. We still got all of the life lessons that everyone talks about when talking about ECs. As for the same friend group being a disaster, I don't see it. I had my neighborhood friends and school friends. Usually kept separate, we did different things together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess that it's neighborhood dependent. My friends and I did activities, but we still had plenty of time to hang out and be kids. Activities just didn't take over our lives. We still got all of the life lessons that everyone talks about when talking about ECs. As for the same friend group being a disaster, I don't see it. I had my neighborhood friends and school friends. Usually kept separate, we did different things together.

So it sounds like you did NOT have only one group of friends. You had at least two and you kept them separate. That was what I was saying is a good idea...having more than one. You got it from the neighborhood, but these days neighborhood and school will overlap for many. ECs are a nice source of different friend groups. What you describe (activities that didn't take over your life) sounds great; a kid doesn't need to entirely limit ECs in order to have hang out time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP. Those types of parents drive me crazy when they can't give up their own free time for their kids. I work a ton, and it's not really my idea of a good time to sit in a waiting room, my car or a ball field most weeknights and weekends, but I will definitely do it for my DD.

I have two neighbor mom friends who side eye us hard about how busy our DD is. They make some pretty passive aggressive comments about it. But she asks to do more. She does about 6 hours a week on one activity, just asked to add another 2 hours, plus she will add a weekend sport in the spring. I constantly check in to make sure it's not too much and she says it's not. Plus, that activity is her social circle now, so it's also time with friends.

I personally look at it like she's learning life skills (time management, commitment, etc) and better than sitting in front of a TV or a device.

I just can't stand the superiority of those that intentionally won't let their kids do activities when they have the time and money. They are doing their kids a disservice because once they make it to middle school and decide "hey I want to go out for X sport" it's probably too late because most of those kids have been doing that sport for years already. It's just not like how it was when we were growing up. And you can fight it all you want (I wish it was a little more chill as well!!) but that's not going to change anything.

Work on your own insecurity, guilt, and obsessive need to compare yourself favorably to others. Your DD will pick up on your attitude toward life and then she will become a miserable adult like you because she thinks that's the correct way to parent, and that any lifestyle other than the hamster wheel you're on is failure. Also, expand your horizons so that you don't assume the only two choices for children are organized activities or screens. Best of luck to you.

So smug

Not the poster, but it's not smug. So many people say they put their kids in organized activities, keep them busy as they say so that they stay off screens. Screens or activities are not the only two options.

I agree with this (NP) and I really dislike the argument that the only way to keep kids off screens is to schedule their every waking hour. Also: it's not true.

A kid who is very scheduled will get used to always having a distraction. If your child is never forced to entertain themselves for any substantial length of time, they will become the kind of adult who feels nervous and uncomfortable whenever they are not occupied. And that is the sort of the adult who is most likely to become addicted to their phone or tablet, because it's something to "do" during all the parts of life that are boring. Like, just as a for instance, when your kid is at swim class and you are stuck waiting for them to be done.

I don't think my kid is under scheduled, but I 100% schedule "nothing" into her life to ensure that she develops the ability to entertain herself when bored in ways that don't involve screens. Like when I was booking summer camp, I purposefully booked two weeks without camp that I've told her are "mom weeks" -- we're going to do some stuff (library visits, pool, go to the movies, outings with friends) but there will be swaths of each day that are unscheduled. She's got books and toys, she enjoys art, she gets to decide how to spend that time but screen access will be limited. I want her to grow up to be a person who can take a week off and find fun things to do but also knows how to relax have down time.

Same thing with after school. She has some activities but there are always a couple days a week where she has nothing scheduled after school and she is too old for aftercare. She comes home, gets herself a snack, and finds stuff to do. Sometimes she comes to me and says "I'm booooored, what should I do" and I say "That sounds tough but I don't know. I'm finishing work now and you are welcome to help me with dinner when I'm done, but I guess you've just got to find something to do right now." She whines about it, but she finds stuff to do. We've also learned some interesting things about her, like if there is music playing in the house, she has an easier time entertaining herself. That's a useful life lesson she can take with her to adulthood that she would never have gotten out of two extra days of scheduled activities.

PP you are referring to and nowhere did I say my DD has every waking hour scheduled. She has 2-4 days a week where she has nothing scheduled. But still we often get "wowwww... you sure keep her busy, I would never do that" because 2 nights a week, she has dance for 3 hours and we often have something most weekends. And some weekends it's all weekend long, but she loves it and is happy.

Of course there's other things to do than screens if a kid isn't in an activity. My kid does those things too. I just don't understand why you wouldn't have your kid do something if you're able to. Especially when they are young ... try all the things and see what they like and are good at. It doesn't have to be super serious, I just think it's selfish of parents to not give up "their" time to put their kids in activity or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP. Those types of parents drive me crazy when they can't give up their own free time for their kids. I work a ton, and it's not really my idea of a good time to sit in a waiting room, my car or a ball field most weeknights and weekends, but I will definitely do it for my DD.

I have two neighbor mom friends who side eye us hard about how busy our DD is. They make some pretty passive aggressive comments about it. But she asks to do more. She does about 6 hours a week on one activity, just asked to add another 2 hours, plus she will add a weekend sport in the spring. I constantly check in to make sure it's not too much and she says it's not. Plus, that activity is her social circle now, so it's also time with friends.

I personally look at it like she's learning life skills (time management, commitment, etc) and better than sitting in front of a TV or a device.

I just can't stand the superiority of those that intentionally won't let their kids do activities when they have the time and money. They are doing their kids a disservice because once they make it to middle school and decide "hey I want to go out for X sport" it's probably too late because most of those kids have been doing that sport for years already. It's just not like how it was when we were growing up. And you can fight it all you want (I wish it was a little more chill as well!!) but that's not going to change anything.

Work on your own insecurity, guilt, and obsessive need to compare yourself favorably to others. Your DD will pick up on your attitude toward life and then she will become a miserable adult like you because she thinks that's the correct way to parent, and that any lifestyle other than the hamster wheel you're on is failure. Also, expand your horizons so that you don't assume the only two choices for children are organized activities or screens. Best of luck to you.

So smug

Not the poster, but it's not smug. So many people say they put their kids in organized activities, keep them busy as they say so that they stay off screens. Screens or activities are not the only two options.

I agree with this (NP) and I really dislike the argument that the only way to keep kids off screens is to schedule their every waking hour. Also: it's not true.

A kid who is very scheduled will get used to always having a distraction. If your child is never forced to entertain themselves for any substantial length of time, they will become the kind of adult who feels nervous and uncomfortable whenever they are not occupied. And that is the sort of the adult who is most likely to become addicted to their phone or tablet, because it's something to "do" during all the parts of life that are boring. Like, just as a for instance, when your kid is at swim class and you are stuck waiting for them to be done.

I don't think my kid is under scheduled, but I 100% schedule "nothing" into her life to ensure that she develops the ability to entertain herself when bored in ways that don't involve screens. Like when I was booking summer camp, I purposefully booked two weeks without camp that I've told her are "mom weeks" -- we're going to do some stuff (library visits, pool, go to the movies, outings with friends) but there will be swaths of each day that are unscheduled. She's got books and toys, she enjoys art, she gets to decide how to spend that time but screen access will be limited. I want her to grow up to be a person who can take a week off and find fun things to do but also knows how to relax have down time.

Same thing with after school. She has some activities but there are always a couple days a week where she has nothing scheduled after school and she is too old for aftercare. She comes home, gets herself a snack, and finds stuff to do. Sometimes she comes to me and says "I'm booooored, what should I do" and I say "That sounds tough but I don't know. I'm finishing work now and you are welcome to help me with dinner when I'm done, but I guess you've just got to find something to do right now." She whines about it, but she finds stuff to do. We've also learned some interesting things about her, like if there is music playing in the house, she has an easier time entertaining herself. That's a useful life lesson she can take with her to adulthood that she would never have gotten out of two extra days of scheduled activities.

PP you are referring to and nowhere did I say my DD has every waking hour scheduled. She has 2-4 days a week where she has nothing scheduled. But still we often get "wowwww... you sure keep her busy, I would never do that" because 2 nights a week, she has dance for 3 hours and we often have something most weekends. And some weekends it's all weekend long, but she loves it and is happy.

Of course there's other things to do than screens if a kid isn't in an activity. My kid does those things too. I just don't understand why you wouldn't have your kid do something if you're able to. Especially when they are young ... try all the things and see what they like and are good at. It doesn't have to be super serious, I just think it's selfish of parents to not give up "their" time to put their kids in activity or two.

Because alot of activities are really expensive and time consuming. Even if you have those things doesn't mean you need to agree to spend alot of money/time on kids activities especially if they don't want it, but even if they do sometimes it's ok to say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Free time is important; you don’t know how to use it as an adult if you didn’t have it as a child. A lot of the carting kids around to activities is to satisfy parents’ anxieties (and they're not knowing what to do with any free time they may have). I don’t want my kid viewing kids under that kind of pressure as relevant peers.

And, some kids enjoy it and parents who refuse to allow kids to explore their interests and are able to are selfish.

Enjoyment today and mental health for a lifetime are two different goals. They can coincide, but they are not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP. Those types of parents drive me crazy when they can't give up their own free time for their kids. I work a ton, and it's not really my idea of a good time to sit in a waiting room, my car or a ball field most weeknights and weekends, but I will definitely do it for my DD.

I have two neighbor mom friends who side eye us hard about how busy our DD is. They make some pretty passive aggressive comments about it. But she asks to do more. She does about 6 hours a week on one activity, just asked to add another 2 hours, plus she will add a weekend sport in the spring. I constantly check in to make sure it's not too much and she says it's not. Plus, that activity is her social circle now, so it's also time with friends.

I personally look at it like she's learning life skills (time management, commitment, etc) and better than sitting in front of a TV or a device.

I just can't stand the superiority of those that intentionally won't let their kids do activities when they have the time and money. They are doing their kids a disservice because once they make it to middle school and decide "hey I want to go out for X sport" it's probably too late because most of those kids have been doing that sport for years already. It's just not like how it was when we were growing up. And you can fight it all you want (I wish it was a little more chill as well!!) but that's not going to change anything.

Work on your own insecurity, guilt, and obsessive need to compare yourself favorably to others. Your DD will pick up on your attitude toward life and then she will become a miserable adult like you because she thinks that's the correct way to parent, and that any lifestyle other than the hamster wheel you're on is failure. Also, expand your horizons so that you don't assume the only two choices for children are organized activities or screens. Best of luck to you.

So smug

Not the poster, but it's not smug. So many people say they put their kids in organized activities, keep them busy as they say so that they stay off screens. Screens or activities are not the only two options.

I agree with this (NP) and I really dislike the argument that the only way to keep kids off screens is to schedule their every waking hour. Also: it's not true.

A kid who is very scheduled will get used to always having a distraction. If your child is never forced to entertain themselves for any substantial length of time, they will become the kind of adult who feels nervous and uncomfortable whenever they are not occupied. And that is the sort of the adult who is most likely to become addicted to their phone or tablet, because it's something to "do" during all the parts of life that are boring. Like, just as a for instance, when your kid is at swim class and you are stuck waiting for them to be done.

I don't think my kid is under scheduled, but I 100% schedule "nothing" into her life to ensure that she develops the ability to entertain herself when bored in ways that don't involve screens. Like when I was booking summer camp, I purposefully booked two weeks without camp that I've told her are "mom weeks" -- we're going to do some stuff (library visits, pool, go to the movies, outings with friends) but there will be swaths of each day that are unscheduled. She's got books and toys, she enjoys art, she gets to decide how to spend that time but screen access will be limited. I want her to grow up to be a person who can take a week off and find fun things to do but also knows how to relax have down time.

Same thing with after school. She has some activities but there are always a couple days a week where she has nothing scheduled after school and she is too old for aftercare. She comes home, gets herself a snack, and finds stuff to do. Sometimes she comes to me and says "I'm booooored, what should I do" and I say "That sounds tough but I don't know. I'm finishing work now and you are welcome to help me with dinner when I'm done, but I guess you've just got to find something to do right now." She whines about it, but she finds stuff to do. We've also learned some interesting things about her, like if there is music playing in the house, she has an easier time entertaining herself. That's a useful life lesson she can take with her to adulthood that she would never have gotten out of two extra days of scheduled activities.

The bold is according to whom? You? I doubt scheduling some "nothing" time for your kid will really be all that impactful in them becoming the kind of adult you describe. And, no, doing a bunch of activities as a kid is not the reason some adults are addicted to their phones.

[Anonymous]

Ok, so if kids are really underscheduled then how many activities do you think they should have,? How busy should they be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the posters suggesting MS kids don't need ANY ECs...here's something to think about. In addition to making kids more well-rounded, allowing them to be part of a team, getting them active and fit, providing creative and artistic outlets, fostering healthy competition, instilling grit, nourishing a passion, and on and on, ECs at this age lead to diversified, multiple friend groups! It's so important that MS kids don't just have one group of friends. Recipe for disaster! Literally ZERO ECs at the middle school age is, in fact, under-scheduled in my book. Even with like one sport and one something else a season, there is plenty of time in a week for MS to spend chilling out with friends.

Also, there won't even be any kids to "hang" out with in the after-school hours because all the other kids will be doing ECs.

If there are never any kids to hang out with though, doesn't that sound like a sign of kids are too busy and overscheduled? Some activities fine, but when kids are never around that's not a good thing imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the posters suggesting MS kids don't need ANY ECs...here's something to think about. In addition to making kids more well-rounded, allowing them to be part of a team, getting them active and fit, providing creative and artistic outlets, fostering healthy competition, instilling grit, nourishing a passion, and on and on, ECs at this age lead to diversified, multiple friend groups! It's so important that MS kids don't just have one group of friends. Recipe for disaster! Literally ZERO ECs at the middle school age is, in fact, under-scheduled in my book. Even with like one sport and one something else a season, there is plenty of time in a week for MS to spend chilling out with friends.

Also, there won't even be any kids to "hang" out with in the after-school hours because all the other kids will be doing ECs.

If there are never any kids to hang out with though, doesn't that sound like a sign of kids are too busy and overscheduled? Some activities fine, but when kids are never around that's not a good thing imo.

Eh, I was trying to say that these idyllic notions of a bunch of 7th graders coming home and all wondering over to each others houses to play after school won't end up realizing. Most kids have a few activities and a few free days, but inevitably you'll find that your kids' free days don't match up with the free days of X kid down the street they like to play with. Doesn't mean that either kid is over-scheduled, it just doesn't work out like you are envisioning What does happen is a group of kids ask their parents if they can hang out at someone's house after soccer practice or after art club meets, etc. Or a group gets together and hangs out after school at carpooling parent's house before its time to be driven to dance team...blah blah, stuff like that. Plenty of hanging out, really.

[Anonymous]

I loathe Girl Scouts, but my kid likes it. So I volunteer and try to be polite. Sometimes it’s not terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the posters suggesting MS kids don't need ANY ECs...here's something to think about. In addition to making kids more well-rounded, allowing them to be part of a team, getting them active and fit, providing creative and artistic outlets, fostering healthy competition, instilling grit, nourishing a passion, and on and on, ECs at this age lead to diversified, multiple friend groups! It's so important that MS kids don't just have one group of friends. Recipe for disaster! Literally ZERO ECs at the middle school age is, in fact, under-scheduled in my book. Even with like one sport and one something else a season, there is plenty of time in a week for MS to spend chilling out with friends.

Also, there won't even be any kids to "hang" out with in the after-school hours because all the other kids will be doing ECs.

If there are never any kids to hang out with though, doesn't that sound like a sign of kids are too busy and overscheduled? Some activities fine, but when kids are never around that's not a good thing imo.

Eh, I was trying to say that these idyllic notions of a bunch of 7th graders coming home and all wondering over to each others houses to play after school won't end up realizing. Most kids have a few activities and a few free days, but inevitably you'll find that your kids' free days don't match up with the free days of X kid down the street they like to play with. Doesn't mean that either kid is over-scheduled, it just doesn't work out like you are envisioning What does happen is a group of kids ask their parents if they can hang out at someone's house after soccer practice or after art club meets, etc. Or a group gets together and hangs out after school at carpooling parent's house before its time to be driven to dance team...blah blah, stuff like that. Plenty of hanging out, really.

I guess it is idyllic and wishful thinking that kids are able to just play and hang out with neighborhood friends like so many of us used to. It's less and less common I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain the philosophy behind having no organized activities or enrichment (music lessons, language lessons, or tutoring) for your child? I'm talking about situations where there is plenty of money to pay for them and the child has requested them. Parents don't work unreasonable hours, so it's not a question of time. They just never get around to signing up for music lessons, soccer teams, art camps, chess clubs, sailing lessons, etc... I know that most people consider the UMC kids of the DMV to be overscheduled. But it doesn't seem any more healthy to do no activities or zero enrichment. These are not free range kids either. They don't have any interest in exploring more than their own street nor would the parents allow that.

Music lessons? Like the kind where you pay a zillion dollars for lessons but getting kid to practice turns into a battle so it's a big money sink?
Language lessons? What kid asks for or enjoys that?
Tutoring? You know some kids are smart and don't need tutors?

Our kids don't do activities because we work full time, and they spend 9-10 hours a day in school+aftercare, and we are all tired at the end of the day. They are learning piano using an app on their ipads. They don't like playing sports. They do art and creative activities constantly at home. I'm not sure what you think is going to happen to them if they don't have sailing lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP. Those types of parents drive me crazy when they can't give up their own free time for their kids. I work a ton, and it's not really my idea of a good time to sit in a waiting room, my car or a ball field most weeknights and weekends, but I will definitely do it for my DD.

I have two neighbor mom friends who side eye us hard about how busy our DD is. They make some pretty passive aggressive comments about it. But she asks to do more. She does about 6 hours a week on one activity, just asked to add another 2 hours, plus she will add a weekend sport in the spring. I constantly check in to make sure it's not too much and she says it's not. Plus, that activity is her social circle now, so it's also time with friends.

I personally look at it like she's learning life skills (time management, commitment, etc) and better than sitting in front of a TV or a device.

I just can't stand the superiority of those that intentionally won't let their kids do activities when they have the time and money. They are doing their kids a disservice because once they make it to middle school and decide "hey I want to go out for X sport" it's probably too late because most of those kids have been doing that sport for years already. It's just not like how it was when we were growing up. And you can fight it all you want (I wish it was a little more chill as well!!) but that's not going to change anything.

Work on your own insecurity, guilt, and obsessive need to compare yourself favorably to others. Your DD will pick up on your attitude toward life and then she will become a miserable adult like you because she thinks that's the correct way to parent, and that any lifestyle other than the hamster wheel you're on is failure. Also, expand your horizons so that you don't assume the only two choices for children are organized activities or screens. Best of luck to you.

So smug

Not the poster, but it's not smug. So many people say they put their kids in organized activities, keep them busy as they say so that they stay off screens. Screens or activities are not the only two options.

I agree with this (NP) and I really dislike the argument that the only way to keep kids off screens is to schedule their every waking hour. Also: it's not true.

A kid who is very scheduled will get used to always having a distraction. If your child is never forced to entertain themselves for any substantial length of time, they will become the kind of adult who feels nervous and uncomfortable whenever they are not occupied. And that is the sort of the adult who is most likely to become addicted to their phone or tablet, because it's something to "do" during all the parts of life that are boring. Like, just as a for instance, when your kid is at swim class and you are stuck waiting for them to be done.

I don't think my kid is under scheduled, but I 100% schedule "nothing" into her life to ensure that she develops the ability to entertain herself when bored in ways that don't involve screens. Like when I was booking summer camp, I purposefully booked two weeks without camp that I've told her are "mom weeks" -- we're going to do some stuff (library visits, pool, go to the movies, outings with friends) but there will be swaths of each day that are unscheduled. She's got books and toys, she enjoys art, she gets to decide how to spend that time but screen access will be limited. I want her to grow up to be a person who can take a week off and find fun things to do but also knows how to relax have down time.

Same thing with after school. She has some activities but there are always a couple days a week where she has nothing scheduled after school and she is too old for aftercare. She comes home, gets herself a snack, and finds stuff to do. Sometimes she comes to me and says "I'm booooored, what should I do" and I say "That sounds tough but I don't know. I'm finishing work now and you are welcome to help me with dinner when I'm done, but I guess you've just got to find something to do right now." She whines about it, but she finds stuff to do. We've also learned some interesting things about her, like if there is music playing in the house, she has an easier time entertaining herself. That's a useful life lesson she can take with her to adulthood that she would never have gotten out of two extra days of scheduled activities.

PP you are referring to and nowhere did I say my DD has every waking hour scheduled. She has 2-4 days a week where she has nothing scheduled. But still we often get "wowwww... you sure keep her busy, I would never do that" because 2 nights a week, she has dance for 3 hours and we often have something most weekends. And some weekends it's all weekend long, but she loves it and is happy.

Of course there's other things to do than screens if a kid isn't in an activity. My kid does those things too. I just don't understand why you wouldn't have your kid do something if you're able to. Especially when they are young ... try all the things and see what they like and are good at. It doesn't have to be super serious, I just think it's selfish of parents to not give up "their" time to put their kids in activity or two.

Because alot of activities are really expensive and time consuming. Even if you have those things doesn't mean you need to agree to spend alot of money/time on kids activities especially if they don't want it, but even if they do sometimes it's ok to say no.

There are a lot of low-cost and free options. It sounds like you are just making excuses as you cannot be bothered. Personally, I'd rather cut back on other things to allow my kids in the activities they choose as they are my priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain the philosophy behind having no organized activities or enrichment (music lessons, language lessons, or tutoring) for your child? I'm talking about situations where there is plenty of money to pay for them and the child has requested them. Parents don't work unreasonable hours, so it's not a question of time. They just never get around to signing up for music lessons, soccer teams, art camps, chess clubs, sailing lessons, etc... I know that most people consider the UMC kids of the DMV to be overscheduled. But it doesn't seem any more healthy to do no activities or zero enrichment. These are not free range kids either. They don't have any interest in exploring more than their own street nor would the parents allow that.

Music lessons? Like the kind where you pay a zillion dollars for lessons but getting kid to practice turns into a battle so it's a big money sink?
Language lessons? What kid asks for or enjoys that?
Tutoring? You know some kids are smart and don't need tutors?

Our kids don't do activities because we work full time, and they spend 9-10 hours a day in school+aftercare, and we are all tired at the end of the day. They are learning piano using an app on their ipads. They don't like playing sports. They do art and creative activities constantly at home. I'm not sure what you think is going to happen to them if they don't have sailing lessons.

MCPS and other school systems offer free tutoring even for smart kids, like mine.
Language lessons - mine asks for it.
Music lessons - yes we battle to practice but when we suggest stopping them kid gets upset.

It sounds like it's really about you, no the kids. They might enjoy an art class, for example. You don't learn piano on an app. Funny how screen time is ok but activities are not. Its really you are tired and cannot be bothered.