The science on remote schooling is now clear. Here’s who it hurt most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...lol. I am perfectly fine shedding the "friends" I had who wanted to stand with the liberal media and unions. Their kids didn't do well...I know one who suffered severe mental illness due to lack of socialization. Sad sad situation. The schools should have opened in the fall. Mine kid's school did, no teachers died, and my kid is on track to take AP Calc in her junior year of HS. Damn I hate being right all the time.

Uhhh, my kid was remote pretty much all year in 2022-21. Her school had kids come in one day a week in late winter. She’s also a junior and in AP Calc right now. Doing great. Not sure why you think your kid being in AP Calc is such a flex. 👀

Same. My kids stayed remote through 21. Both are juniors in AP Calc currently.

Wow. Good for you. My kid got a 5 on the Calc BC exam during his virtual senior year and failed his next math class in college. Go figure.

Or, maybe your kid didn't put in the effort when they got to college. Or, maybe they were taking too hard of a class, especially if they are taking Calculus Senior year when many take calculus Sophomore or Junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand the point of this. I mean it is very very obvious that virtual school sucked and would lead to worse outcomes. It isn’t like that wasn’t expected. The issue is we dealt with an emergency and now we are picking up the aftermath.

It’s like when a tornado strikes and a town is leveled and people have to find immediate shelter and clothes and in some case mourn and heal.

After that stage there is so much work. On tv you never see the tearing down of the rest of the structures and the painfully slow process of rebuilding. You never see the altered lives and how some move away or move in with family. We are with schools in this painful part of assessing and rebuilding. The fact that you are whining and pointing fingers at teachers and schools isn’t going to make the original emergency and pain go away. It won’t make how anyone handled it go away. It will show your child how you deal with adversity by blaming and shaming.
Everyone is sorry this all happened. Yiu show your character by how you move on.

Well I guess the issue is what you mean by moving on. Yes, lots of people want to turn the page and put the onus on learning back on parents/students/tutors, without acknowledging the gaps that were created by the very method and curriculum that the administration chose. I think this is wrong. These articles focus on poor students being affected, but the reality is that most students were negatively affected. My kid is an MCPS HS and for the first time in years we went to many parent teacher conferences because she is clearly struggling, and in *every* conference, the teacher said *more than half* the class is completely underwater, which is a real change from past years. They are taking time to reteach basic material.

We cannot just “move on.” As a community, we must make attempts at repair before we can do that.

Why didn't you help out and support your kids? MCPS offered/offers free tutoring for any child who needs it, not just those struggling so it seems to me like you are making excuses. Many of these kids struggled before covid its easier to blame covid vs. what is really going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent, I’m tired of all these people STILL working remotely harping on and on about this. I went back in person before vaccines and then left because the stress of it all was awful. I taught remotely in a district where parents had the choice of full in person 5x a week school or remote learning. The vast majority of our parents wanted their kids to stay remote. The past few years have been awful for everyone and you are wrong if you think kids could have been insulated from that. We’ve seen time and time again that pretending COVID doesn’t exist and demanding things are “normal” is harmful and foolish. You can’t wish this away. I’m not sorry for keeping my family as safe as possible. Thank you to the parents who have vaccinated their kids, keep them home when they’re sick, and test when they do have symptoms.

This was true here. You make a very good point. Many were not rushing back when we had the option and some of us are still virtual. We cannot trust other parents to keep their sick kids home (nor teachers) and cannot risk constant illness. Kids don't learn in person when they are sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

There’s a long line of academic research showing that it is very hard for students to catch up when they call behind. Anyone that said teachers would be able to bring students back up to speed after schools reopened wasn’t arguing in good faith.

What is the reasoning behind trying to catch up? Why not just move at a realistic pace given the circumstances?

Because we want our kids to go to college? Your last chance to take the SAT is fall of senior year, and your high school grades count. My kid can’t undo his learning loss in time. A kid who was in K or 3rd during virtual learning can catch up, and the article talked about that. It is the high schoolers who had learning loss that are SOL

There was just an article in the NYT about how college freshmen and sophomores are struggling. They missed at least three months during high school (due to the March 2020 closures) and didn't get anything extra. It is any wonder that many find themselves unprepared for college. This will cost students a lifetime of lost earnings, yet no one cares.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/covid-college-students.html


And there have been many other articles about how things are not all right with new college students. The problems extend beyond academics, and there are no easy answers.

But what can be done to help them?

NP. As if the pro-closure people care at all about struggling kids. Come on. They’ve already shown they don’t. This includes university administration. Nothing will be done, and the permanent, lifelong harm that was immediately obvious to anyone with two brain cells will occur.

Funny how you never cared about struggling kids before and are just using them as a talking point. Schools have been open a year and a half, some never went virtual and kids are struggling. Maybe it wasn't covid that was the issue or even going virtual.

These studies are flawed. They need to look at kids currently in virtual to comparable kids in person as a true comparison.

Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve done more for struggling kids than you ever have. And stop with your BS gaslighting. We all know what I wrote is true.

What have you actually done? I seriously doubt you have done more than I have. If you did, you'd know about all the issues that were happening prior to covid and still happening and Virtual is just a very small part of it. You clearly ignored all the kids struggling before covid, the poor curriculum, the lack of reading specialists, SLPs, OTs, and others who should be there to help and aren't.

These studies aren't accurate as they need to look at a comparison group and the true comparison is with kids who are learning virtually. Except for the very young ones, the current kids in middle and high school failed in elementary school before covid. And, as parents, some choose to ignore the situation and some of us choose to do something about it. Clearly you choose to complain, while others of us got our kids the help they needed and worked with our kids at home so they could be successful later on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

There’s a long line of academic research showing that it is very hard for students to catch up when they call behind. Anyone that said teachers would be able to bring students back up to speed after schools reopened wasn’t arguing in good faith.

What is the reasoning behind trying to catch up? Why not just move at a realistic pace given the circumstances?

Because we want our kids to go to college? Your last chance to take the SAT is fall of senior year, and your high school grades count. My kid can’t undo his learning loss in time. A kid who was in K or 3rd during virtual learning can catch up, and the article talked about that. It is the high schoolers who had learning loss that are SOL

There was just an article in the NYT about how college freshmen and sophomores are struggling. They missed at least three months during high school (due to the March 2020 closures) and didn't get anything extra. It is any wonder that many find themselves unprepared for college. This will cost students a lifetime of lost earnings, yet no one cares.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/covid-college-students.html


And there have been many other articles about how things are not all right with new college students. The problems extend beyond academics, and there are no easy answers.

But what can be done to help them?

NP. As if the pro-closure people care at all about struggling kids. Come on. They’ve already shown they don’t. This includes university administration. Nothing will be done, and the permanent, lifelong harm that was immediately obvious to anyone with two brain cells will occur.

Funny how you never cared about struggling kids before and are just using them as a talking point. Schools have been open a year and a half, some never went virtual and kids are struggling. Maybe it wasn't covid that was the issue or even going virtual.

These studies are flawed. They need to look at kids currently in virtual to comparable kids in person as a true comparison.

Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve done more for struggling kids than you ever have. And stop with your BS gaslighting. We all know what I wrote is true.

What have you actually done? I seriously doubt you have done more than I have. If you did, you'd know about all the issues that were happening prior to covid and still happening and Virtual is just a very small part of it. You clearly ignored all the kids struggling before covid, the poor curriculum, the lack of reading specialists, SLPs, OTs, and others who should be there to help and aren't.

These studies aren't accurate as they need to look at a comparison group and the true comparison is with kids who are learning virtually. Except for the very young ones, the current kids in middle and high school failed in elementary school before covid. And, as parents, some choose to ignore the situation and some of us choose to do something about it. Clearly you choose to complain, while others of us got our kids the help they needed and worked with our kids at home so they could be successful later on.

This question is whether it is possible for kids to learn as much virtually. It is whether kids *did* learn as much virtually. The evidence shows they didn’t.

You're trying to answer a different question, presumably because you're trying to convince yourself that you're not continuing to do your children harm by keeping them at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand the point of this. I mean it is very very obvious that virtual school sucked and would lead to worse outcomes. It isn’t like that wasn’t expected. The issue is we dealt with an emergency and now we are picking up the aftermath.

It’s like when a tornado strikes and a town is leveled and people have to find immediate shelter and clothes and in some case mourn and heal.

After that stage there is so much work. On tv you never see the tearing down of the rest of the structures and the painfully slow process of rebuilding. You never see the altered lives and how some move away or move in with family. We are with schools in this painful part of assessing and rebuilding. The fact that you are whining and pointing fingers at teachers and schools isn’t going to make the original emergency and pain go away. It won’t make how anyone handled it go away. It will show your child how you deal with adversity by blaming and shaming.
Everyone is sorry this all happened. Yiu show your character by how you move on.

A tornado hit my hometown when I was growing up and destroyed the high school, and heavily damaged the elementary and middle schools. We were still all back in school 2 weeks later. You figure it out.

The problem here is that the people and organizations that pushed for long-term school closures during the pandemic did so without acknowledging and weighing the harm that would result from school closures. Even now, many are refusing to acknowledge that harm. Some of these people are likely to push for more closures in the future, still ignoring the harm to students.

And, some like you refuse to understand the harm done by keeping them open. The harm in kids losing their parents and loved ones unnecessarily because some people thought nothing of spreading covid to others, which ended up killing their parents.

It's ironic how some of us teach our kids to be resilient and be apart of the greater good, which means if something like this happens they/we shift and adapt to make it work. You seem rather inflexible as it's only about your needs. If we saved one child from losing their parent or one parent from losing their child, it was all worth it to me. Be thankful you've never been in that situation. So, while you celebrate with your family today, many of us grieve those we've lost.

There’s no evidence that keeping kids at home did significantly reduce deaths. You act as if you think schools are the only infection source, and that kids will necessarily stay home if they’re not able to go to school.

There is evidence that keeping schools closed led to educational harms, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

There’s a long line of academic research showing that it is very hard for students to catch up when they call behind. Anyone that said teachers would be able to bring students back up to speed after schools reopened wasn’t arguing in good faith.

What is the reasoning behind trying to catch up? Why not just move at a realistic pace given the circumstances?

Because we want our kids to go to college? Your last chance to take the SAT is fall of senior year, and your high school grades count. My kid can’t undo his learning loss in time. A kid who was in K or 3rd during virtual learning can catch up, and the article talked about that. It is the high schoolers who had learning loss that are SOL

There was just an article in the NYT about how college freshmen and sophomores are struggling. They missed at least three months during high school (due to the March 2020 closures) and didn't get anything extra. It is any wonder that many find themselves unprepared for college. This will cost students a lifetime of lost earnings, yet no one cares.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/covid-college-students.html


And there have been many other articles about how things are not all right with new college students. The problems extend beyond academics, and there are no easy answers.

But what can be done to help them?

NP. As if the pro-closure people care at all about struggling kids. Come on. They’ve already shown they don’t. This includes university administration. Nothing will be done, and the permanent, lifelong harm that was immediately obvious to anyone with two brain cells will occur.

Funny how you never cared about struggling kids before and are just using them as a talking point. Schools have been open a year and a half, some never went virtual and kids are struggling. Maybe it wasn't covid that was the issue or even going virtual.

These studies are flawed. They need to look at kids currently in virtual to comparable kids in person as a true comparison.

Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve done more for struggling kids than you ever have. And stop with your BS gaslighting. We all know what I wrote is true.

What have you actually done? I seriously doubt you have done more than I have. If you did, you'd know about all the issues that were happening prior to covid and still happening and Virtual is just a very small part of it. You clearly ignored all the kids struggling before covid, the poor curriculum, the lack of reading specialists, SLPs, OTs, and others who should be there to help and aren't.

These studies aren't accurate as they need to look at a comparison group and the true comparison is with kids who are learning virtually. Except for the very young ones, the current kids in middle and high school failed in elementary school before covid. And, as parents, some choose to ignore the situation and some of us choose to do something about it. Clearly you choose to complain, while others of us got our kids the help they needed and worked with our kids at home so they could be successful later on.

This question is whether it is possible for kids to learn as much virtually. It is whether kids *did* learn as much virtually. The evidence shows they didn’t.

You're trying to answer a different question, presumably because you're trying to convince yourself that you're not continuing to do your children harm by keeping them at home.

I meant to say the question **isn’t** whether it is possible for kids to learn as much virtually— it’s whether they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand the point of this. I mean it is very very obvious that virtual school sucked and would lead to worse outcomes. It isn’t like that wasn’t expected. The issue is we dealt with an emergency and now we are picking up the aftermath.

It’s like when a tornado strikes and a town is leveled and people have to find immediate shelter and clothes and in some case mourn and heal.

After that stage there is so much work. On tv you never see the tearing down of the rest of the structures and the painfully slow process of rebuilding. You never see the altered lives and how some move away or move in with family. We are with schools in this painful part of assessing and rebuilding. The fact that you are whining and pointing fingers at teachers and schools isn’t going to make the original emergency and pain go away. It won’t make how anyone handled it go away. It will show your child how you deal with adversity by blaming and shaming.
Everyone is sorry this all happened. Yiu show your character by how you move on.

Well I guess the issue is what you mean by moving on. Yes, lots of people want to turn the page and put the onus on learning back on parents/students/tutors, without acknowledging the gaps that were created by the very method and curriculum that the administration chose. I think this is wrong. These articles focus on poor students being affected, but the reality is that most students were negatively affected. My kid is an MCPS HS and for the first time in years we went to many parent teacher conferences because she is clearly struggling, and in *every* conference, the teacher said *more than half* the class is completely underwater, which is a real change from past years. They are taking time to reteach basic material.

We cannot just “move on.” As a community, we must make attempts at repair before we can do that.

Why didn't you help out and support your kids? MCPS offered/offers free tutoring for any child who needs it, not just those struggling so it seems to me like you are making excuses. Many of these kids struggled before covid its easier to blame covid vs. what is really going on.

1. You seem to think that no one is using tutoring and other supports.

2. Some of you are really invested in shifting blame. These kids were struggling before covid? No. I’m going to go with the teachers I’m talking to who see a real difference in the students rather than an anonymous poster casting about looking to avoid the obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...lol. I am perfectly fine shedding the "friends" I had who wanted to stand with the liberal media and unions. Their kids didn't do well...I know one who suffered severe mental illness due to lack of socialization. Sad sad situation. The schools should have opened in the fall. Mine kid's school did, no teachers died, and my kid is on track to take AP Calc in her junior year of HS. Damn I hate being right all the time.

Uhhh, my kid was remote pretty much all year in 2022-21. Her school had kids come in one day a week in late winter. She’s also a junior and in AP Calc right now. Doing great. Not sure why you think your kid being in AP Calc is such a flex. 👀

Same. My kids stayed remote through 21. Both are juniors in AP Calc currently.

Wow. Good for you. My kid got a 5 on the Calc BC exam during his virtual senior year and failed his next math class in college. Go figure.

Or, maybe your kid didn't put in the effort when they got to college. Or, maybe they were taking too hard of a class, especially if they are taking Calculus Senior year when many take calculus Sophomore or Junior year.

So invested in shifting blame and avoiding the most obvious answer. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...lol. I am perfectly fine shedding the "friends" I had who wanted to stand with the liberal media and unions. Their kids didn't do well...I know one who suffered severe mental illness due to lack of socialization. Sad sad situation. The schools should have opened in the fall. Mine kid's school did, no teachers died, and my kid is on track to take AP Calc in her junior year of HS. Damn I hate being right all the time.

Uhhh, my kid was remote pretty much all year in 2022-21. Her school had kids come in one day a week in late winter. She’s also a junior and in AP Calc right now. Doing great. Not sure why you think your kid being in AP Calc is such a flex. 👀

Same. My kids stayed remote through 21. Both are juniors in AP Calc currently.

Wow. Good for you. My kid got a 5 on the Calc BC exam during his virtual senior year and failed his next math class in college. Go figure.

Or, maybe your kid didn't put in the effort when they got to college. Or, maybe they were taking too hard of a class, especially if they are taking Calculus Senior year when many take calculus Sophomore or Junior year.

So invested in shifting blame and avoiding the most obvious answer. Wow.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand the point of this. I mean it is very very obvious that virtual school sucked and would lead to worse outcomes. It isn’t like that wasn’t expected. The issue is we dealt with an emergency and now we are picking up the aftermath.

It’s like when a tornado strikes and a town is leveled and people have to find immediate shelter and clothes and in some case mourn and heal.

After that stage there is so much work. On tv you never see the tearing down of the rest of the structures and the painfully slow process of rebuilding. You never see the altered lives and how some move away or move in with family. We are with schools in this painful part of assessing and rebuilding. The fact that you are whining and pointing fingers at teachers and schools isn’t going to make the original emergency and pain go away. It won’t make how anyone handled it go away. It will show your child how you deal with adversity by blaming and shaming.
Everyone is sorry this all happened. Yiu show your character by how you move on.

A tornado hit my hometown when I was growing up and destroyed the high school, and heavily damaged the elementary and middle schools. We were still all back in school 2 weeks later. You figure it out.

The problem here is that the people and organizations that pushed for long-term school closures during the pandemic did so without acknowledging and weighing the harm that would result from school closures. Even now, many are refusing to acknowledge that harm. Some of these people are likely to push for more closures in the future, still ignoring the harm to students.

And, some like you refuse to understand the harm done by keeping them open. The harm in kids losing their parents and loved ones unnecessarily because some people thought nothing of spreading covid to others, which ended up killing their parents.

It's ironic how some of us teach our kids to be resilient and be apart of the greater good, which means if something like this happens they/we shift and adapt to make it work. You seem rather inflexible as it's only about your needs. If we saved one child from losing their parent or one parent from losing their child, it was all worth it to me. Be thankful you've never been in that situation. So, while you celebrate with your family today, many of us grieve those we've lost.

There’s no evidence that keeping kids at home did significantly reduce deaths. You act as if you think schools are the only infection source, and that kids will necessarily stay home if they’re not able to go to school.

There is evidence that keeping schools closed led to educational harms, though.

Exactly. It is remarkable to me how delusional the pro-virtual posters remain. It was clear by fall 2020 that virtual was a disastrous mistake that would severely harm the most vulnerable students. And sure enough, that’s what the data now shows. But that was evident in fall 2020. Furthermore, there is no evidence whatsoever that closing the schools saved lives; in fact there are some theories that the closures disproportionately caused spread to the elderly caregivers at home. In school kids would have worn masks.

Honestly at this point, any time I hear a parent talking about how their kid “thrived” in virtual, in my head I translate it to “I am terrible at assessing actual academic development and I don’t know my kid very well.” The amount of data about how absolutely terrible virtual was for learning is simply too overwhelming.

[Anonymous]

Remote learning was eye-opening for me. I watched the remote learning lessons with my ES and MS kids to have an idea about the quality of teaching. And then I crafted lessons and supplementary material for them. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the socialization at school is extremely important, and many subjects were taught with great competency. Still, I saw the pandemic lockdown as a unique opportunity to hunker down and concentrate on making sure that my kids were accelerated and enriched in the ways that they needed. I am seeing the results now in-person school. The leg-up that they got in individual attention during the remote schooling by my involvement is paying rich dividends now.

Yes, it helped that I am educated enough to handle ES and MS curriculum, it helped that I was working from home too, it helped that I was not doing elder care, it helped that I did not have other priorities in life. I am sure someone will chime in about my privilege. But a lot of people who are a lot more privileged than me decided not to be involved in their children schooling. That is the reality. I can understand LMC kids falling behind. I cannot understand MC and above kids from functional families falling behind. I am 100% behind the school closing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

There’s a long line of academic research showing that it is very hard for students to catch up when they call behind. Anyone that said teachers would be able to bring students back up to speed after schools reopened wasn’t arguing in good faith.

What is the reasoning behind trying to catch up? Why not just move at a realistic pace given the circumstances?

Because we want our kids to go to college? Your last chance to take the SAT is fall of senior year, and your high school grades count. My kid can’t undo his learning loss in time. A kid who was in K or 3rd during virtual learning can catch up, and the article talked about that. It is the high schoolers who had learning loss that are SOL

There was just an article in the NYT about how college freshmen and sophomores are struggling. They missed at least three months during high school (due to the March 2020 closures) and didn't get anything extra. It is any wonder that many find themselves unprepared for college. This will cost students a lifetime of lost earnings, yet no one cares.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/covid-college-students.html


And there have been many other articles about how things are not all right with new college students. The problems extend beyond academics, and there are no easy answers.

But what can be done to help them?

NP. As if the pro-closure people care at all about struggling kids. Come on. They’ve already shown they don’t. This includes university administration. Nothing will be done, and the permanent, lifelong harm that was immediately obvious to anyone with two brain cells will occur.

Funny how you never cared about struggling kids before and are just using them as a talking point. Schools have been open a year and a half, some never went virtual and kids are struggling. Maybe it wasn't covid that was the issue or even going virtual.

These studies are flawed. They need to look at kids currently in virtual to comparable kids in person as a true comparison.

Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve done more for struggling kids than you ever have. And stop with your BS gaslighting. We all know what I wrote is true.

What have you actually done? I seriously doubt you have done more than I have. If you did, you'd know about all the issues that were happening prior to covid and still happening and Virtual is just a very small part of it. You clearly ignored all the kids struggling before covid, the poor curriculum, the lack of reading specialists, SLPs, OTs, and others who should be there to help and aren't.

These studies aren't accurate as they need to look at a comparison group and the true comparison is with kids who are learning virtually. Except for the very young ones, the current kids in middle and high school failed in elementary school before covid. And, as parents, some choose to ignore the situation and some of us choose to do something about it. Clearly you choose to complain, while others of us got our kids the help they needed and worked with our kids at home so they could be successful later on.

This question is whether it is possible for kids to learn as much virtually. It is whether kids *did* learn as much virtually. The evidence shows they didn’t.

You're trying to answer a different question, presumably because you're trying to convince yourself that you're not continuing to do your children harm by keeping them at home.

Then, virtual was not the issue. Maybe as a parent you take responsibility. I am not doing harm and if you think I am, what are you willing to do to make it safe for my kids to return? If parents and staff will not stay home sick, it’s a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand the point of this. I mean it is very very obvious that virtual school sucked and would lead to worse outcomes. It isn’t like that wasn’t expected. The issue is we dealt with an emergency and now we are picking up the aftermath.

It’s like when a tornado strikes and a town is leveled and people have to find immediate shelter and clothes and in some case mourn and heal.

After that stage there is so much work. On tv you never see the tearing down of the rest of the structures and the painfully slow process of rebuilding. You never see the altered lives and how some move away or move in with family. We are with schools in this painful part of assessing and rebuilding. The fact that you are whining and pointing fingers at teachers and schools isn’t going to make the original emergency and pain go away. It won’t make how anyone handled it go away. It will show your child how you deal with adversity by blaming and shaming.
Everyone is sorry this all happened. Yiu show your character by how you move on.

A tornado hit my hometown when I was growing up and destroyed the high school, and heavily damaged the elementary and middle schools. We were still all back in school 2 weeks later. You figure it out.

The problem here is that the people and organizations that pushed for long-term school closures during the pandemic did so without acknowledging and weighing the harm that would result from school closures. Even now, many are refusing to acknowledge that harm. Some of these people are likely to push for more closures in the future, still ignoring the harm to students.

And, some like you refuse to understand the harm done by keeping them open. The harm in kids losing their parents and loved ones unnecessarily because some people thought nothing of spreading covid to others, which ended up killing their parents.

It's ironic how some of us teach our kids to be resilient and be apart of the greater good, which means if something like this happens they/we shift and adapt to make it work. You seem rather inflexible as it's only about your needs. If we saved one child from losing their parent or one parent from losing their child, it was all worth it to me. Be thankful you've never been in that situation. So, while you celebrate with your family today, many of us grieve those we've lost.

There’s no evidence that keeping kids at home did significantly reduce deaths. You act as if you think schools are the only infection source, and that kids will necessarily stay home if they’re not able to go to school.

There is evidence that keeping schools closed led to educational harms, though.

Exactly. It is remarkable to me how delusional the pro-virtual posters remain. It was clear by fall 2020 that virtual was a disastrous mistake that would severely harm the most vulnerable students. And sure enough, that’s what the data now shows. But that was evident in fall 2020. Furthermore, there is no evidence whatsoever that closing the schools saved lives; in fact there are some theories that the closures disproportionately caused spread to the elderly caregivers at home. In school kids would have worn masks.

Honestly at this point, any time I hear a parent talking about how their kid “thrived” in virtual, in my head I translate it to “I am terrible at assessing actual academic development and I don’t know my kid very well.” The amount of data about how absolutely terrible virtual was for learning is simply too overwhelming.

Actually there is evidence. You just refuse to acknowledge it. It reduced numbers getting Covid and deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remote learning was eye-opening for me. I watched the remote learning lessons with my ES and MS kids to have an idea about the quality of teaching. And then I crafted lessons and supplementary material for them. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the socialization at school is extremely important, and many subjects were taught with great competency. Still, I saw the pandemic lockdown as a unique opportunity to hunker down and concentrate on making sure that my kids were accelerated and enriched in the ways that they needed. I am seeing the results now in-person school. The leg-up that they got in individual attention during the remote schooling by my involvement is paying rich dividends now.

Yes, it helped that I am educated enough to handle ES and MS curriculum, it helped that I was working from home too, it helped that I was not doing elder care, it helped that I did not have other priorities in life. I am sure someone will chime in about my privilege. But a lot of people who are a lot more privileged than me decided not to be involved in their children schooling. That is the reality. I can understand LMC kids falling behind. I cannot understand MC and above kids from functional families falling behind. I am 100% behind the school closing.

Lots of school systems are offering lots of options for tutoring but most don’t take advantage of it. We always supplemented before Covid. The curriculum is weak at best.