The science on remote schooling is now clear. Here’s who it hurt most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

The most accurate comment on this entire thread!
~20 yr educator

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yet people are still dying from covid and children are now dying of RSV. sigh.

That is mainly because kids wore masks for so long. Their immune systems are weak do to lack of exposure. Sigh.

This actually isn’t true. Sigh.

Right, the kids that normally would have gotten sick in 2020, 2021, and 2022 all got sick in 2022. So that’s why it seems high. This was covered on the Daily this week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School closings were bad. But opening them would have killed a lot of people - in particular, teachers and the family members of teachers. As a teacher, it disgusts me still that there were people who thought it was more important to open schools than to keep us and our families alive.

My child also suffered from closed schools. But the issue for me is not that schools closed, but that FCPS did such an inexcusably poor job of providing virtual instruction. It didn't have to be as useless as it was.

Also the family members of the students. Lots of kids lost parents.

Considering schools in red states were in-person and all private schools were in-person and it is now the end of 2022, you are going to have to work much harder to make your point than just saying in person school would have “killed” lots of people. I am shocked (though I shouldn’t be) how many people are still holding on to that with all of the evidence that says otherwise.

These people are trying to avoid the realization that their leadership basically made them and their kids the sacrificial lambs to their agenda.

Their agenda was to save lives - the lives of children, teachers, and their families. The insistence of one political group on using that to further their own agenda is both hypocritical and based on complete denial of scientific evidence.

No one in charge thought virtual school was a good idea. They just thought it was better than having all that death on their hands. They did their best. It's easy to criticize others when you yourself don't have any responsibility for the consequences, but all the time in the world to pretend you would have done something different or known something more.

The fact that the virtual school was so poorly done is what people should be angry about.

Agree 100%.

Virtual school/hybrid could have been better.

The biggest issue now is the lack of aggressive, systemic remediation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School closings were bad. But opening them would have killed a lot of people - in particular, teachers and the family members of teachers. As a teacher, it disgusts me still that there were people who thought it was more important to open schools than to keep us and our families alive.

My child also suffered from closed schools. But the issue for me is not that schools closed, but that FCPS did such an inexcusably poor job of providing virtual instruction. It didn't have to be as useless as it was.

Also the family members of the students. Lots of kids lost parents.

Considering schools in red states were in-person and all private schools were in-person and it is now the end of 2022, you are going to have to work much harder to make your point than just saying in person school would have “killed” lots of people. I am shocked (though I shouldn’t be) how many people are still holding on to that with all of the evidence that says otherwise.

These people are trying to avoid the realization that their leadership basically made them and their kids the sacrificial lambs to their agenda.

Their agenda was to save lives - the lives of children, teachers, and their families. The insistence of one political group on using that to further their own agenda is both hypocritical and based on complete denial of scientific evidence.

No one in charge thought virtual school was a good idea. They just thought it was better than having all that death on their hands. They did their best. It's easy to criticize others when you yourself don't have any responsibility for the consequences, but all the time in the world to pretend you would have done something different or known something more.

The fact that the virtual school was so poorly done is what people should be angry about.

So poorly and for so long. The initial decision to close in March 2020 was understandable, but we knew much more by the fall. It is ridiculous that some leaders and the teachers’ unions were still pushing for closures in the fall of 2020. I think that's what most people are mad about- not the March decision.

+1 They could've pivoted to remote temporarily if the numbers rose in the fall/winter 2020, like they did with some of the schools for two weeks in January last year. Should've been a school by school decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

The most accurate comment on this entire thread!
~20 yr educator

+1, I was just coming to say the same thing after reading through the thread. This nails what is happening. It’s not really about “learning loss”. It’s about how closures ruptured trust and relationships between teachers, schools, kids, and parents. The closures were an abdication of the contract we’d previously had to take care of each other. Instead people looked out for themselves and we can’t get the trust back. It’s broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent, I’m tired of all these people STILL working remotely harping on and on about this. I went back in person before vaccines and then left because the stress of it all was awful. I taught remotely in a district where parents had the choice of full in person 5x a week school or remote learning. The vast majority of our parents wanted their kids to stay remote. The past few years have been awful for everyone and you are wrong if you think kids could have been insulated from that. We’ve seen time and time again that pretending COVID doesn’t exist and demanding things are “normal” is harmful and foolish. You can’t wish this away. I’m not sorry for keeping my family as safe as possible. Thank you to the parents who have vaccinated their kids, keep them home when they’re sick, and test when they do have symptoms.

Whether a parent is remote or not is irrelevant? I work remotely and have since before Covid because I chose a career and made choices to prioritize remote work.

No one thought we could insulate kids from the pandemic. What people are saying is that we had other options available. One thing that drives me crazy is that people refuse to acknowledge that virtual isn’t really an option for very young kids unless they have a full time dedicated caregiver (SAHP, nanny, relative— NOT group care environment). Kids in K or 1st cannot do remote school without full time supervision. And the vast majority of kids don’t have that kind of supervision available to them. When we put very young kids in virtual school, we are telling parents that they must create a homeschool environment for them. Can we just acknowledge that’s what we asked of families. It was homeschool with some minimal guidance from a teacher via Microsoft Teams.

Why can’t we just say what happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yet people are still dying from covid and children are now dying of RSV. sigh.

That is mainly because kids wore masks for so long. Their immune systems are weak do to lack of exposure. Sigh.

I can’t believe someone like you can be this dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yet people are still dying from covid and children are now dying of RSV. sigh.

That is mainly because kids wore masks for so long. Their immune systems are weak do to lack of exposure. Sigh.

This actually isn’t true. Sigh.

Actually it is true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/science/rsv-children-hospitals.html?unlocked_article_code=IVyZ0vKFjW6bbelpcl1w8SiE4Okq1ir_5gTQw3JWVGkKEI5x1v8yfxX0dOt8lsAX1pdBUNduWZ7CtfpoOTdt-nfTYFgcOYM_MrzKDgRu_etmWyhccXVHR06JO1cXq_AiptFmbutyMBvPZc718JAVs1C3J2RDmJ3FGzODLm7YWVrfbp3Ztsj8IdfHvGn1PT5QI4JJHjHmleXdfuv9VN7ewa72fIIHM74-O3qUzPq4e3xjIr1sJftorXeOf-P2rCyX7U3Y4hZTaRq0UwfWniHoPFWGGmKDssvrM5su6qgwOEWtfAa4duCfvNM4RflzI2DxM9HFwlhfYcqMD9Ua9r3JMw&smid=share-url

“The immune system works by recognition and repetition,” said Dr. Sarah Combs, an emergency medicine physician at Children’s National Hospital in Washington, D.C., where over 1,000 children tested positive for R.S.V. between July and early October of this year. “And when you give it a bit of a rest, like we did during the pandemic — and for good reason — we now have a generation of immune-naive children.”

what a dumbass doctor. And i See she is british.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yet people are still dying from covid and children are now dying of RSV. sigh.

That is mainly because kids wore masks for so long. Their immune systems are weak do to lack of exposure. Sigh.

Your immune system isn’t a muscle, it’s a photo album. Wearing a mask did not weaken anyone’s immune system. COVID infections did, though.

Your body retains the ability to recognize the viruses, but doesn’t retain the cells that fight those viruses. Those wane over a few months after infection. After that you'll be able to get reinfected, but generally the severity will be lessened.

A big problem we have now with young kids is that there's an unusually large number of kids getting RSV for the *first* time, primarily due to pandemic related behaviors. That first infection is where there's highest risk.

OMG you are dumb!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yet people are still dying from covid and children are now dying of RSV. sigh.

That is mainly because kids wore masks for so long. Their immune systems are weak do to lack of exposure. Sigh.

Your immune system isn’t a muscle, it’s a photo album. Wearing a mask did not weaken anyone’s immune system. COVID infections did, though.

Your body retains the ability to recognize the viruses, but doesn’t retain the cells that fight those viruses. Those wane over a few months after infection. After that you'll be able to get reinfected, but generally the severity will be lessened.

A big problem we have now with young kids is that there's an unusually large number of kids getting RSV for the *first* time, primarily due to pandemic related behaviors. That first infection is where there's highest risk.

OMG you are dumb!!!!!

NP- Dumb is responding with insults instead of quotes, research and links.

One is a conversation with another person, the other is disrespectful and insulting.

DCUM used to trade ideas, quotes and information people like you who just insult do not help any cause. You bring down the forum with insults and make people leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent, I’m tired of all these people STILL working remotely harping on and on about this. I went back in person before vaccines and then left because the stress of it all was awful. I taught remotely in a district where parents had the choice of full in person 5x a week school or remote learning. The vast majority of our parents wanted their kids to stay remote. The past few years have been awful for everyone and you are wrong if you think kids could have been insulated from that. We’ve seen time and time again that pretending COVID doesn’t exist and demanding things are “normal” is harmful and foolish. You can’t wish this away. I’m not sorry for keeping my family as safe as possible. Thank you to the parents who have vaccinated their kids, keep them home when they’re sick, and test when they do have symptoms.

Whether a parent is remote or not is irrelevant? I work remotely and have since before Covid because I chose a career and made choices to prioritize remote work.

No one thought we could insulate kids from the pandemic. What people are saying is that we had other options available. One thing that drives me crazy is that people refuse to acknowledge that virtual isn’t really an option for very young kids unless they have a full time dedicated caregiver (SAHP, nanny, relative— NOT group care environment). Kids in K or 1st cannot do remote school without full time supervision. And the vast majority of kids don’t have that kind of supervision available to them. When we put very young kids in virtual school, we are telling parents that they must create a homeschool environment for them. Can we just acknowledge that’s what we asked of families. It was homeschool with some minimal guidance from a teacher via Microsoft Teams.

Why can’t we just say what happened?

NP: What? That hindsight is 20/20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone intellectually knew this would be the result of extended school closures. But as evident in this thread, a lot of people didn’t care, and still don’t.

I know that teachers tried. But here's where teachers' unions, and by extension, teachers, take a hit. They assured parents that as "experts" they knew what was best for children and would be quickly able to get children back up to speed once schools reopened. That has not turned out to be true. Instead, the problems caused by the pandemic, and exacerbated by virtual school, have made teaching even more difficult and students and parents chronically stressed and unsupported. Decision makers underestimated the harms of isolation and personal interaction between teachers and students and students with their fellow classmates. We are not talking about "learning losses" or setbacks, we now dealing with scores of anxious and depressed kids who can't learn. They don't trust anyone or believe that anyone cares about them.

Oh, and by the way, what was the plan for graduating seniors to make up all of the material they missed? There wasn't one, and no one cares. It's better to blame kids and their parents for everything and allow these kids to get lost.

The most accurate comment on this entire thread!
~20 yr educator

+1, I was just coming to say the same thing after reading through the thread. This nails what is happening. It’s not really about “learning loss”. It’s about how closures ruptured trust and relationships between teachers, schools, kids, and parents. The closures were an abdication of the contract we’d previously had to take care of each other. Instead people looked out for themselves and we can’t get the trust back. It’s broken.

+1

The trust is broken.

I don’t know what it will take to get it back. I know I’m never going to trust a pro-union politician on education again. I’m never going to believe administration again. I’ve become much more pro-charter than I ever was before. It is sad to me how little I trust educators at this point.

[Anonymous]

The defenders of extended school closures seem to have three kinds of arguments. All three arguments are totally, obviously wrong:

The first argument: "We know virtual schooling isn't great but we had no choice since it was necessary to save lives. You didn't want teachers and kids dropping dead, did you?" This argument is wrong and dishonest, since lots of public and private schools around the country, and around the world, reopened their schools in fall 2020, with zero evidence that this caused a significant surge in COVID deaths.

The second argument: "Virtual schooling could have worked better if it had been done better." This argument relies on some imaginary world where there was some wonderful type of virtual schooling that would have worked great everywhere and replicated the academic and social experience of actually being in a classroom, despite virtual schooling being an overwhelming failure just about everywhere it was tried.

The third argument: "My kids did just fine with virtual learning. If other kids didn't do well that's on their parents." This is the dumbest argument of all: data isn't the plural of anecdote. It's like saying, "My mom smoked a pack a day and lived to age 95, so smoking can't be bad for you." Not to mention that virtual schools set standards so low that just about any kid in DC who could stand sitting in front of a screen for hours a day got straight As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The defenders of extended school closures seem to have three kinds of arguments. All three arguments are totally, obviously wrong:

The first argument: "We know virtual schooling isn't great but we had no choice since it was necessary to save lives. You didn't want teachers and kids dropping dead, did you?" This argument is wrong and dishonest, since lots of public and private schools around the country, and around the world, reopened their schools in fall 2020, with zero evidence that this caused a significant surge in COVID deaths.

The second argument: "Virtual schooling could have worked better if it had been done better." This argument relies on some imaginary world where there was some wonderful type of virtual schooling that would have worked great everywhere and replicated the academic and social experience of actually being in a classroom, despite virtual schooling being an overwhelming failure just about everywhere it was tried.

The third argument: "My kids did just fine with virtual learning. If other kids didn't do well that's on their parents." This is the dumbest argument of all: data isn't the plural of anecdote. It's like saying, "My mom smoked a pack a day and lived to age 95, so smoking can't be bad for you." Not to mention that virtual schools set standards so low that just about any kid in DC who could stand sitting in front of a screen for hours a day got straight As.

+1

The only thing I have to add is that for argument number three, a lot of the people who claimed their kids thrived don’t even realize how much their kids didn’t actually thrive. I don’t trust the judgment of any parent who claims their kid thrived in virtual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea. We get it. In retrospect the school closings were a bad thing. Some mistakes are bound to happen in a once in a century pandemic. Time to move on.

No. Moving on has to involve helping struggling kids by admitting how they were harmed and making a concerted effort to get them on track. For kids who are struggling in college, it's too late for them. We should not let that happen to any more kids.

Are they alive? Then, you won this one. You didn't lose.

If colleges can't adapt to teach some remedial catchup work, then they should learn how to teach better. Exceptional times call for exceptional measures.

And also, schools and districts around the country reacted differently, so it's a little silly to blame one party or another.