HS Magnet Applications Open and....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, just have your kid write the little essay, fill out the forms and move on with your life. Why so much guess work and handwringing about whether they will know if your kid was in a magnet or not. You can’t influence the process in any way except for the essay so why are you all wasting so much energy on these other questions?

I disagree. The kids who are in magnet paced classes have a higher bar to achieve an A. It's just harder: the content and the pace. That is relevant in terms of the grade they earn, especially when compared to others who are taking classes that have the same name but are not actually the same class.

This can be true while it is also true that many of the kids taking non magnet Algebra or Geometry or Science or whatever could handle and deserve to be in the magnet. But not everyone ends up taking magnet classes in the end.

My kid is in the magnet and the classes have not been particularly rigorous. At no point has he been particularly challenged, he breezes though it so just as in the past and I get the impression none of the kids struggle. I really haven’t seen them go as far “in depth” as we were told they would. In all, it’s really not that special. The one exception is that they get to take computer science which has been great. I really question that his As in those subjects should really be worth more than an A in the non magnet version of the courses. Algebra is algebra, for example.

My older DC did not go to TPMS. They said my younger one at TPMS covered topics in Algebra 1 that weren’t covered in the regular MCPS curriculum until Algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be many hundreds of kids of both genders with As in math and science and 99th percentile MAP. How do they differentiate? Did not attend the open house but the information being shared here is confusing.

Not true. I believe there are about 11,000 current eighth graders. Which means that the top 1 percent is 110 kids. There are 200 places county wide in SMACS for example, plus IB programs, CAP and others. And not all of those kids will have all As. Now I know you will claim that the MCPS scores skew much higher, but that’s simply not true. My child bought home their MAP report this week and it clearly shows the MCPS averages are almost identical to the national.

You do know how averages work right? The argument is that the distribution is different in MCPS with a lot at the top and a lot closer to the bottom making the average about the same as the average nationally but meaning there is a lot more competition at the top.

Mean. You’re talking about the mean. That’s probably what the PP was using when s/he wrote “average,” but it could be the median, too.

Sure, there probably are more high-achieving kids, proportionally, in MCPS than in the rest of the country, but I think the idea that everyone has to have straight As and amazing everything is misguided and more about the parents than the kids.

On what basis are you claiming there are more high achieving kids in the county than elsewhere? These assumptions are made every time this comes up but the only actual evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence? This county has one of the most highly educated parent populations in the country. Do you think that doesn’t matter for their children’s achievement?

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

Then SHOW the actual data. Link to it. I could very well be wrong, but you haven’t shown anything to suggest otherwise.

I’m not sure if this is directly comparable but this document shows that the mean MAP-M score for fall 8th grade in 2019 and 2020 was about 210. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED614789.pdf The NWEA docs show that 225 is about the 50th percentile nationally, so this seems to suggest that MCPS is performing more poorly than national for 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be many hundreds of kids of both genders with As in math and science and 99th percentile MAP. How do they differentiate? Did not attend the open house but the information being shared here is confusing.

Not true. I believe there are about 11,000 current eighth graders. Which means that the top 1 percent is 110 kids. There are 200 places county wide in SMACS for example, plus IB programs, CAP and others. And not all of those kids will have all As. Now I know you will claim that the MCPS scores skew much higher, but that’s simply not true. My child bought home their MAP report this week and it clearly shows the MCPS averages are almost identical to the national.

You do know how averages work right? The argument is that the distribution is different in MCPS with a lot at the top and a lot closer to the bottom making the average about the same as the average nationally but meaning there is a lot more competition at the top.

Mean. You’re talking about the mean. That’s probably what the PP was using when s/he wrote “average,” but it could be the median, too.

Sure, there probably are more high-achieving kids, proportionally, in MCPS than in the rest of the country, but I think the idea that everyone has to have straight As and amazing everything is misguided and more about the parents than the kids.

On what basis are you claiming there are more high achieving kids in the county than elsewhere? These assumptions are made every time this comes up but the only actual evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence? This county has one of the most highly educated parent populations in the country. Do you think that doesn’t matter for their children’s achievement?

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

Then SHOW the actual data. Link to it. I could very well be wrong, but you haven’t shown anything to suggest otherwise.

I’m not sure if this is directly comparable but this document shows that the mean MAP-M score for fall 8th grade in 2019 and 2020 was about 210. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED614789.pdf The NWEA docs show that 225 is about the 50th percentile nationally, so this seems to suggest that MCPS is performing more poorly than national for 8th grade.

Thanks, PP. I appreciate your sharing this document.

The challenge in this case is that comparison of means isn't helpful for comparing distribution of scores, which is the point of contention. That is, MCPS might well have a higher than average proportion of high performing students than the average US county, but it might also have a higher proportion of students performing below the national average, for various reasons. The means data aren't precise enough to address that question.

It could be total nonsense, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be many hundreds of kids of both genders with As in math and science and 99th percentile MAP. How do they differentiate? Did not attend the open house but the information being shared here is confusing.

Not true. I believe there are about 11,000 current eighth graders. Which means that the top 1 percent is 110 kids. There are 200 places county wide in SMACS for example, plus IB programs, CAP and others. And not all of those kids will have all As. Now I know you will claim that the MCPS scores skew much higher, but that’s simply not true. My child bought home their MAP report this week and it clearly shows the MCPS averages are almost identical to the national.

You do know how averages work right? The argument is that the distribution is different in MCPS with a lot at the top and a lot closer to the bottom making the average about the same as the average nationally but meaning there is a lot more competition at the top.

Mean. You’re talking about the mean. That’s probably what the PP was using when s/he wrote “average,” but it could be the median, too.

Sure, there probably are more high-achieving kids, proportionally, in MCPS than in the rest of the country, but I think the idea that everyone has to have straight As and amazing everything is misguided and more about the parents than the kids.

On what basis are you claiming there are more high achieving kids in the county than elsewhere? These assumptions are made every time this comes up but the only actual evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence? This county has one of the most highly educated parent populations in the country. Do you think that doesn’t matter for their children’s achievement?

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

Then SHOW the actual data. Link to it. I could very well be wrong, but you haven’t shown anything to suggest otherwise.

I’m not sure if this is directly comparable but this document shows that the mean MAP-M score for fall 8th grade in 2019 and 2020 was about 210. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED614789.pdf The NWEA docs show that 225 is about the 50th percentile nationally, so this seems to suggest that MCPS is performing more poorly than national for 8th grade.

I think you are reading the wrong table -- the 210 for 8th grade fall MAP-M shows up in table 9, which is "limited English proficiency (LEP)" students. Table 7 shows an average of 233 for all students.

[Anonymous]

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.


No large published data, but here is what I noticed for my kid a few years ago. When he got into TPMS, MCPS sent us percentiles for MoCo and how he ranked nationwide. At the MCPS level he was @ 99%, 99%, 99% and for the same metrics National he was 97%, 99%, 98%. So yeah, MoCo has higher achieving kids than the National average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be many hundreds of kids of both genders with As in math and science and 99th percentile MAP. How do they differentiate? Did not attend the open house but the information being shared here is confusing.

Not true. I believe there are about 11,000 current eighth graders. Which means that the top 1 percent is 110 kids. There are 200 places county wide in SMACS for example, plus IB programs, CAP and others. And not all of those kids will have all As. Now I know you will claim that the MCPS scores skew much higher, but that’s simply not true. My child bought home their MAP report this week and it clearly shows the MCPS averages are almost identical to the national.

You do know how averages work right? The argument is that the distribution is different in MCPS with a lot at the top and a lot closer to the bottom making the average about the same as the average nationally but meaning there is a lot more competition at the top.

Mean. You’re talking about the mean. That’s probably what the PP was using when s/he wrote “average,” but it could be the median, too.

Sure, there probably are more high-achieving kids, proportionally, in MCPS than in the rest of the country, but I think the idea that everyone has to have straight As and amazing everything is misguided and more about the parents than the kids.

On what basis are you claiming there are more high achieving kids in the county than elsewhere? These assumptions are made every time this comes up but the only actual evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence? This county has one of the most highly educated parent populations in the country. Do you think that doesn’t matter for their children’s achievement?

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

Then SHOW the actual data. Link to it. I could very well be wrong, but you haven’t shown anything to suggest otherwise.

I’m not sure if this is directly comparable but this document shows that the mean MAP-M score for fall 8th grade in 2019 and 2020 was about 210. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED614789.pdf The NWEA docs show that 225 is about the 50th percentile nationally, so this seems to suggest that MCPS is performing more poorly than national for 8th grade.

I think you are reading the wrong table -- the 210 for 8th grade fall MAP-M shows up in table 9, which is "limited English proficiency (LEP)" students. Table 7 shows an average of 233 for all students.

You are correct. Thanks. The point remains, there isn’t a lot of difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.


No large published data, but here is what I noticed for my kid a few years ago. When he got into TPMS, MCPS sent us percentiles for MoCo and how he ranked nationwide. At the MCPS level he was @ 99%, 99%, 99% and for the same metrics National he was 97%, 99%, 98%. So yeah, MoCo has higher achieving kids than the National average.

You maybe have those numbers the wrong way around but what your numbers prove that MCPS is below the national average. Also what you are citing is COGAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

No large published data, but here is what I noticed for my kid a few years ago. When he got into TPMS, MCPS sent us percentiles for MoCo and how he ranked nationwide. At the MCPS level he was @ 99%, 99%, 99% and for the same metrics National he was 97%, 99%, 98%. So yeah, MoCo has higher achieving kids than the National average.

You maybe have those numbers the wrong way around but what your numbers prove that MCPS is below the national average. Also what you are citing is COGAT.

I know the bar charts they include with the MAP scores always show MCPS is maybe a 1% or two higher than national.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be many hundreds of kids of both genders with As in math and science and 99th percentile MAP. How do they differentiate? Did not attend the open house but the information being shared here is confusing.

Not true. I believe there are about 11,000 current eighth graders. Which means that the top 1 percent is 110 kids. There are 200 places county wide in SMACS for example, plus IB programs, CAP and others. And not all of those kids will have all As. Now I know you will claim that the MCPS scores skew much higher, but that’s simply not true. My child bought home their MAP report this week and it clearly shows the MCPS averages are almost identical to the national.

You do know how averages work right? The argument is that the distribution is different in MCPS with a lot at the top and a lot closer to the bottom making the average about the same as the average nationally but meaning there is a lot more competition at the top.

Mean. You’re talking about the mean. That’s probably what the PP was using when s/he wrote “average,” but it could be the median, too.

Sure, there probably are more high-achieving kids, proportionally, in MCPS than in the rest of the country, but I think the idea that everyone has to have straight As and amazing everything is misguided and more about the parents than the kids.

On what basis are you claiming there are more high achieving kids in the county than elsewhere? These assumptions are made every time this comes up but the only actual evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence? This county has one of the most highly educated parent populations in the country. Do you think that doesn’t matter for their children’s achievement?

The actual data that has been released showing the numbers closely tracking. I’ll take data over your “this area is so highly educated it must be true” any day.

Then SHOW the actual data. Link to it. I could very well be wrong, but you haven’t shown anything to suggest otherwise.

I’m not sure if this is directly comparable but this document shows that the mean MAP-M score for fall 8th grade in 2019 and 2020 was about 210. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED614789.pdf The NWEA docs show that 225 is about the 50th percentile nationally, so this seems to suggest that MCPS is performing more poorly than national for 8th grade.

I think you are reading the wrong table -- the 210 for 8th grade fall MAP-M shows up in table 9, which is "limited English proficiency (LEP)" students. Table 7 shows an average of 233 for all students.

Stop using facts to destroy their crazy narrative!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, just have your kid write the little essay, fill out the forms and move on with your life. Why so much guess work and handwringing about whether they will know if your kid was in a magnet or not. You can’t influence the process in any way except for the essay so why are you all wasting so much energy on these other questions?

I disagree. The kids who are in magnet paced classes have a higher bar to achieve an A. It's just harder: the content and the pace. That is relevant in terms of the grade they earn, especially when compared to others who are taking classes that have the same name but are not actually the same class.

This can be true while it is also true that many of the kids taking non magnet Algebra or Geometry or Science or whatever could handle and deserve to be in the magnet. But not everyone ends up taking magnet classes in the end.

My kid is in the magnet and the classes have not been particularly rigorous. At no point has he been particularly challenged, he breezes though it so just as in the past and I get the impression none of the kids struggle. I really haven’t seen them go as far “in depth” as we were told they would. In all, it’s really not that special. The one exception is that they get to take computer science which has been great. I really question that his As in those subjects should really be worth more than an A in the non magnet version of the courses. Algebra is algebra, for example.

My older DC did not go to TPMS. They said my younger one at TPMS covered topics in Algebra 1 that weren’t covered in the regular MCPS curriculum until Algebra 2.

That isn't really in depth, that's accelerating but sound silly to do that when they will take Algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has one B in 3rd period in 7th grade, will this the grade make him less competitive? Or the HS only look the overall grade? Thanks

What subject is it in? For Blair SMAC they don’t even see non STEM subjects. If it’s in math, for example, yes, uncompetitive.

DP. How about Computer Science? Or do they only see Math & Science?

That wasn’t clear to me as only TPMS kids will have computer science grades. You could email the magnet coordinator.

They only see the data that most MCPS kids have. It's the same data for everyone presented in the same format. They do not see transcripts or report cards- those have too much identifying data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has one B in 3rd period in 7th grade, will this the grade make him less competitive? Or the HS only look the overall grade? Thanks

What subject is it in? For Blair SMAC they don’t even see non STEM subjects. If it’s in math, for example, yes, uncompetitive.

DP. How about Computer Science? Or do they only see Math & Science?

That wasn’t clear to me as only TPMS kids will have computer science grades. You could email the magnet coordinator.

They only see the data that most MCPS kids have. It's the same data for everyone presented in the same format. They do not see transcripts or report cards- those have too much identifying data.

Not all schools offer computer science. Could that be why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they need Teachers recommendations this year?

No. No Teacher Recommendations, no Map-R (for SMCSM). Just 7th grades and Q1 8th grades + Map-M + essays/statements. That's it.

What I didn't understand from last night's meeting is whether or not they know if kids went to the TPMS magnet. Transcripts clearly list that the 7th grade math class was "Mag Algebra I" which is only available at TPMS. It also indicates the math class was different (2x speed + more content). Is that scrubbed to eliminate the "Mag" - I think that would be disingenuous and unfair, only because the class is materially different. The answers were unclear.

I would think they know. The transcripts say Mag Algebra etc, and I don’t think they would bother (or could bother knowing mcps's systems) to alter it. They always knew who came from TPMS in the past. Also, only about 50 TPMS students went on to Blair magnet. Lots of kids came from other schools.

Good luck, nervous parents!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they need Teachers recommendations this year?

No. No Teacher Recommendations, no Map-R (for SMCSM). Just 7th grades and Q1 8th grades + Map-M + essays/statements. That's it.

What I didn't understand from last night's meeting is whether or not they know if kids went to the TPMS magnet. Transcripts clearly list that the 7th grade math class was "Mag Algebra I" which is only available at TPMS. It also indicates the math class was different (2x speed + more content). Is that scrubbed to eliminate the "Mag" - I think that would be disingenuous and unfair, only because the class is materially different. The answers were unclear.

I think they will know. It makes sense because a B in that class is very different than a B in regular Algebra.

Magnet kids aren’t getting Bs! Are they?!!!

Absolutely! Especially in Comp Sci!!!

They did when Dr. Taliff was there! Glad he moved on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they need Teachers recommendations this year?

No. No Teacher Recommendations, no Map-R (for SMCSM). Just 7th grades and Q1 8th grades + Map-M + essays/statements. That's it.

What I didn't understand from last night's meeting is whether or not they know if kids went to the TPMS magnet. Transcripts clearly list that the 7th grade math class was "Mag Algebra I" which is only available at TPMS. It also indicates the math class was different (2x speed + more content). Is that scrubbed to eliminate the "Mag" - I think that would be disingenuous and unfair, only because the class is materially different. The answers were unclear.

just checked 2018/2019 of TPMS math on DC's transcript. Algebra 1A and Algebra 1B

Oh I see that too. Weird though because this year is Mag Geometry.

Former parent here. I remember this back in the day too. I think it's because Alg 1 doesn't get honors weighting but geom does. Should have said Mag Geom above when I said I think Blair knows who is from TPMS.