Why does the DC Council (Charles Allen) not want the MPD doing any traffic enforcement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

This. The rhetoric on this thread is so ridiculous.

It was 40 last year including a few kids. 25 thus far this year so hopefully fewer than ast year by Jan 1. Deaths don't take into account significant injuries but lived (so increase your number if you can find stats on that), or people just generally p*ssed off on a daily basis by sh*t drivers, close calls, and no enforcement (increase stats further).

[Anonymous]

I mean you are really unlikely to be murdered in DC. 155 last year out of 700k citizens. So that's really statistically improbable too that anyone would be impacted. We should not do anything about that either, amiright??

What's our threshold for caring about enforcement of laws and prevention of rare but bad things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

What the city should really be focused on is spending billions of dollars designing smart infrastructure so fewer people get struck by lightning.

It's time for Vision Zero for Death-by-Lightning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

What the city should really be focused on is spending billions of dollars designing smart infrastructure so fewer people get struck by lightning.

It's time for Vision Zero for Death-by-Lightning.

Rolls eyes at richie rich living in upper NW while the peons in the rest of the city deal with the crappy drivers and crappy street design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

the average number of cyclists killed annually in dc and the number of people killed this year by lightning are actually the same: three

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

the average number of cyclists killed annually in dc and the number of people killed this year by lightning are actually the same: three

Why are you so focused on bicyclists? It's weird. I'm just tired of people running stop signs and red lights on my drive to work or stopping in the crosswalk when I'm trying to get my kids across the street. Is it too much to ask that DC does some basic traffic enforcement? You are actually against traffic enforcement?

[Anonymous]

Murder is at a 20 year high. There have been 155 murders so far this year with a 33% clearance rate by MPD. And yet the main concern of a very comfortable group of folks is traffic enforcement?

Let’s get some murder enforcement first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Murder is at a 20 year high. There have been 155 murders so far this year with a 33% clearance rate by MPD. And yet the main concern of a very comfortable group of folks is traffic enforcement?

Let’s get some murder enforcement first.

Murders in DC are most typically targeted, gang related or domestic, and rarely random. Traffic fatalities are more rare, but also more random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Murder is at a 20 year high. There have been 155 murders so far this year with a 33% clearance rate by MPD. And yet the main concern of a very comfortable group of folks is traffic enforcement?

Let’s get some murder enforcement first.

Traffic enforcement may go hand in hand with crime reduction to help slow down criminals and get some off the street anyways. Boot those cars with $6k in tickets and get reciprocity with MD and VA so that those states can boot cars there for infractions in DC.

These aren't completely separate issues. If you live in a high crime area, then you also know that criminals drive 100mph after a shooting to get away without a speedbump or bumpout in sight to slow them down. Traffic safety measures in my own neighborhood such as speed bumps and cameras have actually helped slow down criminals as we used to be a "getaway" road that folks would peal down our roads after a crime. We have experienced many of those on our own street, some police chases with cars that resulted in crashes in my neighborhood leading to damaged cars when the criminals inevitably crashed. We had a couple awful ones where they crashed into people's cars on our street, totaling some (but hey! no one died, right!). If you don't live in a high crime area, you don't understand this, but in farther areas of the city where crime is more common, you cannot completely separate homicides/crime with road safety measures.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused why a thread about traffic enforcement turns into an argument about bikes. You're all just rich talking heads who don't even live in the areas of the city where traffic safety issues are a concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused why a thread about traffic enforcement turns into an argument about bikes. You're all just rich talking heads who don't even live in the areas of the city where traffic safety issues are a concern.

There is no part of DC where traffic safety is not a big concern.

MD drivers aren't magically transported downtown or to Capital Hill - they have to get thru Wards 3 and 4 and 6 to get there and there are equally dangerous everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.

the average number of cyclists killed annually in dc and the number of people killed this year by lightning are actually the same: three

Heh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused why a thread about traffic enforcement turns into an argument about bikes. You're all just rich talking heads who don't even live in the areas of the city where traffic safety issues are a concern.

There is no part of DC where traffic safety is not a big concern.

MD drivers aren't magically transported downtown or to Capital Hill - they have to get thru Wards 3 and 4 and 6 to get there and there are equally dangerous everywhere.

Actually looking at the map in this Post article, it's predominantly not ward 3, but all the anti traffic safety people who spend time complaining about bikes seem to live in ward 3. On a thread about general traffic safety which includes far, far, far more than just bikes, they literally cannot stop complaining about bikes of all things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/



"The Southern Avenue corridor, which separates D.C. from Maryland’s Prince George’s County, accounted for nearly 1 in 5 traffic deaths in the city last year, The Post found. Among those killed were two pedestrians struck in the same block — one while crossing the street and the other a victim in a hit-and-run — about eight months apart.

Ward 3, which contains many of the city’s Whitest and wealthiest neighborhoods in upper Northwest, had no traffic deaths last year. Cases have often garnered more attention in wealthier areas, where advocates and residents are more vocal on social media, at vigils and during government hearings."

...

"Four of the five neighborhoods with the most deaths over the past eight years are home to majority-Black residents, according to The Post’s analysis, while at least 58 percent of victims citywide were Black — a number that’s likely higher because records in many cases don’t identify race or ethnicity.

By contrast, five majority-White and higher-income neighborhoods — Kent/Palisades, Chevy Chase, Barnaby Woods, Mt. Pleasant and Georgetown — had no traffic fatalities during the eight-year period. This analysis uses boundaries established by the D.C. Department of Health, which delineates 51 “statistical neighborhoods” for research purposes.

Wards 7 and 8, with a population that is about 90 percent Black, combined for 19 traffic-related deaths last year as Ward 3 had none. In the past eight years, Ward 3 recorded seven crash deaths, while wards 7 and 8 had 53 and 60, respectively."

[Anonymous]

The streets of D.C. are quite safe. Traffic accidents are rare. People are focused on other things. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The streets of D.C. are quite safe. Traffic accidents are rare. People are focused on other things. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh you're right, they sure are for YOU and where YOU live, Mr. Ward 3.