Why does the DC Council (Charles Allen) not want the MPD doing any traffic enforcement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Allen's district right off one of the most dangerous roads in NE for pedestrians (Florida Ave between the Starburst and Dave Thomas Circle). I feel frustrated because I actually agree with the PP that the best way to get safer roads is to build better roads that are less conducive to speeding and also that protect pedestrians. Florida has four lanes, people regularly go as much as 20 mph over the limit, narrow and mostly unprotected sidewalks, and too few traffic lights (a number of pedestrian crossings not at lights that are disregarded by drivers about 99.9999999% of the time -- it takes a brave soul to try one of these crosswalks when there is any traffic at all).

And yet the Florida Avenue streetscape that has been talked about for a decade is nowhere to be seen. Despite multiple fatalities on the road in the last 10 years.

And ALSO Allen and others are aginst traffic enforcement.

My question, as with crime, is: okay, no what? If you won't do the liberal/progressive thing of investing in improved infrastructure that slows drivers down and protects pedestrians, but you also won't do the traditional/conservative thing of enforcing existing traffic laws as a deterrent for speeders and dangerous drivers, then are we just supposed to live with dangerous driving all the time?

It's the same with crime. You can talk all you want about "violence interruptors" and providing young people with more resources to keep them away from criminal activity, but if you won't actually do any of this and you also don't want to enforce criminal laws against violators, then what is the plan?

I get that policy is hard but that doesn't mean "no policy, zero enforcement" is an acceptable solution then. You have to do *something*. Do something.

*Doing something* is the Mayor's job. Want to know why the police won't enforce anything? Ask the Mayor.

But the council can force the mayor's hand by actually passing legislation to move things along. And council members have a large voice in the city and can use it to advocate for policies that will actually help their constituents. But very often they instead just make mealy-mouthed noncommital noises about equity while doing NOTHING to actually help citizens.

If you want to criticize the mayor, pull up a chair, I've got thoughts. But the idea that the mayor is the only person with any power in this city is false. Councilmembers are paid with tax dollars to represent constituent interests and in many ways are better positioned to respond to constituent needs because of their ward focus. Charles Allen could do a lot and he isn't.

They can try, but look at previous attempts. It's generally pretty ineffective. Mayor Bowser frequently ignores laws they passed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

Here's your systemic racism...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

Here's your systemic racism...

What PP described seems more like the higher traffic camera rates are an incidental effect. If people think POCs have commutes that are too long, then let's think about solutions to address that issue head-on (such as more affordable housing in city centers). But reckless drivers are a major safety hazard and should get tickets no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

Here's your systemic racism...

What PP described seems more like the higher traffic camera rates are an incidental effect. If people think POCs have commutes that are too long, then let's think about solutions to address that issue head-on (such as more affordable housing in city centers). But reckless drivers are a major safety hazard and should get tickets no matter what.

Traffic cameras seem way more racist than cops.

[Anonymous]

Progressives will not enforce any rule that may draw criticism that they fine or arrest more POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

Here's your systemic racism...

Talking about race is racist? Sounds like the neo-confederates have arrived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

None of those reasons are persuasive. Don’t speed if you don’t want tickets. I’m in the car a ton in DC, and guess what, I don’t speed because I don’t want a ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington D.C. has the largest police force, on a per capita basis, in the United States

But we don't want them to enforce any traffic laws because of tortured woke reasons.

They also don't solve or prevent any crimes, as evidenced by our skyrocketing violent crimes rates.

So we pay roughly 4,000 officers, many more than $100,000 with over-the-top generous benefits, for what exactly?

It's hazard pay for working in a place like DC. Would you take a job dealing with some of the residents of DC for less than $100k+benefits? Not many would in this market.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

this has been a long standing issue with traffic cameras. there's lots of reasons. blacks are less likely to have jobs that allow for working remotely so they're more likely to drive. they're less likely to live near their jobs so they're in their cars longer. they're less likely to live in neighborhoods with groceries stores and things like that nearby so that also has them in their cars more. they're more likely to have lower incomes so traffic tickets and other penalties hurt a lot more.

im frankly surprised dc even has cameras because the evidence that they affect african americans more is overwhelming.

This might be one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Stop making excuses and trying to make anything and everything under the sun "racist". You are ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

There is zero evidence of this in DC because none of the local jurisdictions track the race attached to particular license plates.

[Anonymous]

To be fair, IF DC allowed traffic enforcement, but also has a no chase policy, criminals essentially just take off when cops put on their lights to pull them over, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, IF DC allowed traffic enforcement, but also has a no chase policy, criminals essentially just take off when cops put on their lights to pull them over, right?

Unfortunately this is true.

Other jurisdictions have this policy but it doesn't equal a give up on the offense policy.

What they do is they send the police later to the address where the car is registered and after it is parked arrest the suspect who in addition to the traffic offense is now facing a felony for refusing to stop for which they go to jail.

But this being DC it is just another policy that gives MPD cover to be lazy and avoid doing any work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enforcement is a pretty inefficient way to make things safer and also can be racist.

Building the roads so that people drive at safer speeds is far more effective. That can mean things like narrower lanes.

If you've ever driven on a wide straight lane with few stop lights, you naturally go faster. I just drove on a country back road that had a 60 mph limit, but I was at my limit around 40 mph for most of it because it was narrow and didn't have a safe shoulder to provide margin.

Translation: We're going to take away car lanes, turn them in bike lanes and that will make traffic for drivers so terrible that no one will be able to move, let alone speed. Talk about inefficient.

FWIW - the vast majority of people advocating for bike lanes also want increased enforcement. it comes up a lot. more in the context of red light cameras and speed cameras, and booting cars with tickets. I’m not sure what police officers can do about truly reckless drivers on city streets in the moment- a high speed chase would not be safe either.

+1 - police wouldn't be allowed to chase anyway per DC's policy.

I do support the recent proposal to dock drivers' license points for traffic/light camera infractions. Also believe DC should boot the heck out of these cars wherever and whenever they can.

I honestly don't care about the $ or who is affected by camera tickets. The simplest thing to do is drive slower and stop fully. There's an easy alternative to excess cost of tickets which is to just mandate that the car owner must attend driver training once they hit x number of offenses, or lose their license, or even be able to be arrested if say, 10 offenses in 3 months and did not attend mandatory driver training by x date.

Yes, sometimes an issue can be road design, but let's be honest, a big issue is drivers who are completely egregious no matter what. I've seen drivers on tiny Capitol Hill roads with all the safety precautions of bump outs, stop signs, corner posts, still deliberately run every freaking stop sign in a row as well as red lights (literally just this morning actually right after dropping my kid off at elementary school). What do we do about drivers like this? Police try to pull them over and they take off, now police are chasing this driver during elementary school dropoff on neighborhood roads - also not a great situation. Or police don't bother to chase because of DC chase policy. Whenever I see a driver like that, if I can, I grab a photo of their license plate and 99% of the time, that driver has many camera infractions. Find a way to hold them accountable.

It's also drivers who do not bleeping understand how to legally stop for stop signs (as evidenced by some privledged idiot who tried to contest a stop sign camera somewhere in DC a few months ago by taking video of themselves not actually completing a legal stop). A simple campaign to show people what a legal stop is. Make a video ad, poster, etc. showing how you can hit and kill a small child by not legally stopping. Show faces of actual children who died because someone didn't legally stop.

I'm ranting, but I'm a parent and get extra angry and emotional every time I hear/see a story about yet another DC pedestrian, often enough a kid, hit by an idiot driver while DC does nothing about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Reverse this.

Black pedestrians are more likely to be pedestrians struck, injured, killed. In DC, traffic deaths disproportionately affect parts of the city with higher poverty, higher proportion black neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Reverse this.

Black pedestrians are more likely to be pedestrians struck, injured, killed. In DC, traffic deaths disproportionately affect parts of the city with higher poverty, higher proportion black neighborhoods.

It's this 100%

Rich white liberals support woke and SJW policies that working and lower class blacks actually don't like because they don't actually work.

Ward 6 is extremely well-off and liberal so here we are.