Why does the DC Council (Charles Allen) not want the MPD doing any traffic enforcement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Enforcement is a pretty inefficient way to make things safer and also can be racist.

Building the roads so that people drive at safer speeds is far more effective. That can mean things like narrower lanes.

If you've ever driven on a wide straight lane with few stop lights, you naturally go faster. I just drove on a country back road that had a 60 mph limit, but I was at my limit around 40 mph for most of it because it was narrow and didn't have a safe shoulder to provide margin.

There needs to be enforcement too. You can NOT deny that.

Whether that is police pulling people over, booting cars for x number of infractions, accruing license points or revoking licenses, preventing registration renewal, etc. If you think it's only road design, please drive through some DC neighborhoods where there are ALL the safety things and people still drive egregiously, deliberately run stop signs, red lights, speed, without a care in the world. you look up their license plate and they have $5k unpaid tickets, but are from Maryland so we shrug?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enforcement is a pretty inefficient way to make things safer and also can be racist.

Building the roads so that people drive at safer speeds is far more effective. That can mean things like narrower lanes.

If you've ever driven on a wide straight lane with few stop lights, you naturally go faster. I just drove on a country back road that had a 60 mph limit, but I was at my limit around 40 mph for most of it because it was narrow and didn't have a safe shoulder to provide margin.

There needs to be enforcement too. You can NOT deny that.

Whether that is police pulling people over, booting cars for x number of infractions, accruing license points or revoking licenses, preventing registration renewal, etc. If you think it's only road design, please drive through some DC neighborhoods where there are ALL the safety things and people still drive egregiously, deliberately run stop signs, red lights, speed, without a care in the world. you look up their license plate and they have $5k unpaid tickets, but are from Maryland so we shrug?

Why would you assume they're from Maryland? Racist dog whistle alert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enforcement is a pretty inefficient way to make things safer and also can be racist.

Building the roads so that people drive at safer speeds is far more effective. That can mean things like narrower lanes.

If you've ever driven on a wide straight lane with few stop lights, you naturally go faster. I just drove on a country back road that had a 60 mph limit, but I was at my limit around 40 mph for most of it because it was narrow and didn't have a safe shoulder to provide margin.

There needs to be enforcement too. You can NOT deny that.

Whether that is police pulling people over, booting cars for x number of infractions, accruing license points or revoking licenses, preventing registration renewal, etc. If you think it's only road design, please drive through some DC neighborhoods where there are ALL the safety things and people still drive egregiously, deliberately run stop signs, red lights, speed, without a care in the world. you look up their license plate and they have $5k unpaid tickets, but are from Maryland so we shrug?

Why would you assume they're from Maryland? Racist dog whistle alert.

Weird take - almost all the MD drivers in my neighborhood are white. Or appear to be - with all of the illegally tinted windows it is hard to know these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enforcement is a pretty inefficient way to make things safer and also can be racist.

Building the roads so that people drive at safer speeds is far more effective. That can mean things like narrower lanes.

If you've ever driven on a wide straight lane with few stop lights, you naturally go faster. I just drove on a country back road that had a 60 mph limit, but I was at my limit around 40 mph for most of it because it was narrow and didn't have a safe shoulder to provide margin.

There needs to be enforcement too. You can NOT deny that.

Whether that is police pulling people over, booting cars for x number of infractions, accruing license points or revoking licenses, preventing registration renewal, etc. If you think it's only road design, please drive through some DC neighborhoods where there are ALL the safety things and people still drive egregiously, deliberately run stop signs, red lights, speed, without a care in the world. you look up their license plate and they have $5k unpaid tickets, but are from Maryland so we shrug?

Why would you assume they're from Maryland? Racist dog whistle alert.

No, my point is that MD and VA don't have reciprocity for infractions in DC so essentially, nothing happens to out of state drivers who come into DC every day, but live in those states. There's no penalty. I know DC was looking into this a year ago after outcry over finding out that there is literally no repercussions, but not sure where it stands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Given that lower income BIPOC suffer disproportionately from traffic violence this really isn't the own that some people think it is. From the article:

The irony is that some of the factors that contribute to ticketing disparities, such as wider streets and lack of sidewalks in low-income communities of color, also make those neighborhoods more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and even motorists. According to a 2017 city report, Black Chicagoans are killed in traffic crashes at twice the rate of white residents.

Article also fails to even explore if the disproportionality by zipcode is even related to population density.

DC's cameras overwhelming issue tickets to drivers from the suburbs which is where most of the cars on DC streets come from.

As is always the case if you want to avoid a traffic camera violation simply follow the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Given that lower income BIPOC suffer disproportionately from traffic violence this really isn't the own that some people think it is. From the article:

The irony is that some of the factors that contribute to ticketing disparities, such as wider streets and lack of sidewalks in low-income communities of color, also make those neighborhoods more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and even motorists. According to a 2017 city report, Black Chicagoans are killed in traffic crashes at twice the rate of white residents.

Article also fails to even explore if the disproportionality by zipcode is even related to population density.

DC's cameras overwhelming issue tickets to drivers from the suburbs which is where most of the cars on DC streets come from.

As is always the case if you want to avoid a traffic camera violation simply follow the law.

It's not the own, and also people who make these comments offer zero solutions. Perhaps traffic design, but again, that alone does not address the fact that it's not always traffic design, but sometimes it's horrific driving and not holding people accountable. There must be some repercussion. If we don't want that to be a penalty payment due to equity differences in ability to pay, the simple solution is to force people to attend a traffic school or else lose their license if they don't go. If it's really egregious driving with multiple repeated offenses, etc. you are able to be arrested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

...about the same odds as you making an intelligent comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic cameras disproportionately hit black drivers

How is this possible? Are they designed to only take a picture if the driver is black?

There's been a million studies all showing black drivers are far more likely to be ticketed by cameras. Some cities have dropped cameras because of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

+1

Once again, ignoring that black pedestrians are far more likely die in traffic deaths, to be struck/killed pedestrians. Let's focus on the people dying here and how to prevent that.

Has there been a single black pedestrian who has died this year in a traffic accident? Traffic deaths are quite rare in Washington D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/

PS that article was from Feb 2022. 25 deaths so far in 2022 but cannot say the breakdown by race a DC doesn't publish that to my knowledge. Important to note that just because someone doesn't actually die doesn't mean they weren't permanently and profoundly affected.

Your chances of dying in a traffic accident in Washington DC are roughly the same as being killed by a lighting strike.

What a useless comment.

Traffic deaths in DC are a little bit like plane crashes or being attacked by a shark. When one happens, everyone hears about it. But that doesnt change the fact that they are statistically rare. There are more than 1 million people in DC during the day. If 24 people are killed each year on D.C. rounds, that's out of hundreds of millions of trips. Statistically, that's not that different than the three people in D.C. who have been killed this year by lightning.