I’ve been honest with my daughter about what we can afford but….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I would not apply to schools that you can't afford and can't believe posters are supporting or suggesting this.

It's much easier to be realistic up front and talk up other options than to have a dream acceptance in hand and then have to tell your kid you can't swing it.
Get her excited about her choices!!

And those who are suggestions she pay back parents from lucrative future earnings are just asking for trouble. What if she gets disabled? Switches majors? Goes to an interminable PhD program?
Takes a job that doesn't pay the money you think she should be making? Decides to take a year off and travel? Decides that X, Y or Z is more important to spend money on than paying back mom and dad?
All kinds of things could and do happen in family loan arrangements like this.

My husband's parents put him on a payment plan for money he borrowed from them for medical school. For many reasons, this was an albatross in the relationship until that money was paid off.
It's much better to not intermix loans and family, even parents.

But you have no idea what schools you can afford until the financial aid package comes back! Plus, you can track down scholarships while you are waiting to hear back.

[Anonymous]

This is a tough position. I would hate to tell her not to apply, if she really wants to. BUT, I would also make it clear that unless she gets "X" amount in aid, you won't be able to pay to send her there. Also review the net price calculator with her and show her that it currently states that she will NOT receive "x" amount in aid. Also explore outside scholarship opportunities, but be realistic about how much money that may bring in. Maybe she does partially want bragging rights, and if so, then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I responded earlier to let her apply becaUse odds of acceptance so low. Maybe compromise is letting her apply to Princeton since travel costs would be significantly less. There is a ROTC program at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Visit some of the schools that would likely give her a lot of merit $. She may find that she likes one or more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

Your kid got merit aid to Princeton or Pomona?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

I think we're talking about two different things here -- very good schools that can give merit aid, and tippy top schools like Princeton that give NO merit aid to anyone (just need-based aid). If there is a somewhat decent chance (even if unlikely) of sufficient merit aid, sure, go ahead and apply to that school. But when the school offers no merit aid to anyone and you can't afford it with a HHI that's too high for need-based aid, that's a very different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about crossing that bridge when you get there?

Because then it becomes that much harder to say NO and there will be more disappointment and tears. If there really is a halfway decent chance for enough aid, that's one thing. But if the NPC and/or other data shows it is not realistic, better to head it off at the pass.

I disagree. Chances are she won’t get in to Princeton. Or Pomona. But if you don’t let her apply, she will resent that forever. Just tell her you are sorry but you are not sure you can afford it, but she can apply and see what hapoens

This seems like terrible advice. Sure, odds are against her, but she might get in. And then, when she’s over the moon, you either have to mortgage your retirement or break her heart.

If what she’s seeking is prestige and affirmation, I would try to steer her toward the prestige schools that have a handful of full-ride merit scholarships. Schools like JHU and Swarthmore. She probably won’t get the scholarship, but if she does she can go. And if she gets in without the scholarship, she gets the affirmation of a competitive acceptance, but knows you can’t afford it — just as you’ve said all along.

+1

Plus, ask your DD to split the application fee for the expensive schools; the application fees add up and you can offer to refund her portion of the fee to her for any of the schools that she receives acceptance. She also should apply, as a baseline, to your and your DH's alma maters regardless of whether she 'wants' to go to either or not. Ideally, any letters of reference to the private schools that are not your family's alma mater(s) will also be from an alum teacher (ie HS teacher who went to Yale writes the letter for the application to Yale).

Plan for the merit aid she's offered to be the rate of your in-state tuition (average since you're in DC) plus a percentage that would be deemed a 'reasonable' financial stretch for your family. Ie, if your in-state (average) tuition is $26K, and the private is $80K, then the merit aid will put the price tag in the middle (somewhere) of those two figures. Does that help? Perhaps your bottom line is closer to the midline btwn in-state $ and private $ than you may have initially thought.

Additionally, there's a calculus of all of the other factors that are tracked and noted, which may help with merit aid as well.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

I think we're talking about two different things here -- very good schools that can give merit aid, and tippy top schools like Princeton that give NO merit aid to anyone (just need-based aid). If there is a somewhat decent chance (even if unlikely) of sufficient merit aid, sure, go ahead and apply to that school. But when the school offers no merit aid to anyone and you can't afford it with a HHI that's too high for need-based aid, that's a very different story.

The Federal Gov offers unsubsidized loans regardless of need, so those funds will be available as well; not recommending going that option, but it exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Plus, ask your DD to split the application fee for the expensive schools; the application fees add up and you can offer to refund her portion of the fee to her for any of the schools that she receives acceptance. She also should apply, as a baseline, to your and your DH's alma maters regardless of whether she 'wants' to go to either or not. Ideally, any letters of reference to the private schools that are not your family's alma mater(s) will also be from an alum teacher (ie HS teacher who went to Yale writes the letter for the application to Yale).

P

Legacy status at any of the Ivy League schools only makes a difference if the student applies Early Decision, and even then it's not much of a difference. Regular decision, forget it. Other schools, it may still make a difference but schools are moving away from legacy preference.

I also don't think your baseline application argument makes sense to start with. Different schools are fits for different people, and colleges (not to mention the admissions process) are very different than they were 20-30 years ago when most of us parents went to undergrad. My husband and I both went to a prestigious school, for example, but it was absolutely not the right fit for my oldest kid even though my husband and I both loved it when we were there. Also, admissions officers can see right through the applications where the kids were forced to apply because their parents went there, unless the kid can come up with their own good story about "why Mom's alma mater is a great fit for me."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I would not apply to schools that you can't afford and can't believe posters are supporting or suggesting this.

It's much easier to be realistic up front and talk up other options than to have a dream acceptance in hand and then have to tell your kid you can't swing it.
Get her excited about her choices!!

And those who are suggestions she pay back parents from lucrative future earnings are just asking for trouble. What if she gets disabled? Switches majors? Goes to an interminable PhD program?
Takes a job that doesn't pay the money you think she should be making? Decides to take a year off and travel? Decides that X, Y or Z is more important to spend money on than paying back mom and dad?
All kinds of things could and do happen in family loan arrangements like this.

My husband's parents put him on a payment plan for money he borrowed from them for medical school. For many reasons, this was an albatross in the relationship until that money was paid off.
It's much better to not intermix loans and family, even parents.

But you have no idea what schools you can afford until the financial aid package comes back! Plus, you can track down scholarships while you are waiting to hear back.

This. Also please do not assume you are smarter than your high school senior. You may be but you also may not be. Let them do what they want. You have told them what you can do. There is no more. But maybe just maybe they have it figured out when you do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

Your kid got merit aid to Princeton or Pomona?

I apologize, I was not precise. DC got need-based aid and work study. We would not be able to do it otherwise. Same HHI as OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Plus, ask your DD to split the application fee for the expensive schools; the application fees add up and you can offer to refund her portion of the fee to her for any of the schools that she receives acceptance. She also should apply, as a baseline, to your and your DH's alma maters regardless of whether she 'wants' to go to either or not. Ideally, any letters of reference to the private schools that are not your family's alma mater(s) will also be from an alum teacher (ie HS teacher who went to Yale writes the letter for the application to Yale).

P

Legacy status at any of the Ivy League schools only makes a difference if the student applies Early Decision, and even then it's not much of a difference. Regular decision, forget it. Other schools, it may still make a difference but schools are moving away from legacy preference.

I also don't think your baseline application argument makes sense to start with. Different schools are fits for different people, and colleges (not to mention the admissions process) are very different than they were 20-30 years ago when most of us parents went to undergrad. My husband and I both went to a prestigious school, for example, but it was absolutely not the right fit for my oldest kid even though my husband and I both loved it when we were there. Also, admissions officers can see right through the applications where the kids were forced to apply because their parents went there, unless the kid can come up with their own good story about "why Mom's alma mater is a great fit for me."

Legacy status at Ivy's are a big deal. Princeton in particular. You would be nuts not to use it at any school if that school was a fit for you. Some are giving up on legacy. That is certainly not the case this year for most schools. I doubt most will do anything to legacy unless forced to by law. Even then some will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I would not apply to schools that you can't afford and can't believe posters are supporting or suggesting this.

It's much easier to be realistic up front and talk up other options than to have a dream acceptance in hand and then have to tell your kid you can't swing it.
Get her excited about her choices!!

And those who are suggestions she pay back parents from lucrative future earnings are just asking for trouble. What if she gets disabled? Switches majors? Goes to an interminable PhD program?
Takes a job that doesn't pay the money you think she should be making? Decides to take a year off and travel? Decides that X, Y or Z is more important to spend money on than paying back mom and dad?
All kinds of things could and do happen in family loan arrangements like this.

My husband's parents put him on a payment plan for money he borrowed from them for medical school. For many reasons, this was an albatross in the relationship until that money was paid off.
It's much better to not intermix loans and family, even parents.

But you have no idea what schools you can afford until the financial aid package comes back! Plus, you can track down scholarships while you are waiting to hear back.

This. Also please do not assume you are smarter than your high school senior. You may be but you also may not be. Let them do what they want. You have told them what you can do. There is no more. But maybe just maybe they have it figured out when you do not.

No idea? Not true. What do you think the NPC is there for? What about all the information out there on how much and to whom financial aid grants are given to by a school? You can AT LEAST get a ballpark figure and if your resources aren't even in the same ballpark, then you can't afford it without debt or mortgaging the house, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

OP, our DC got into one of these schools. We have the same HHI as you. DC got lots of merit and work study. FYI from someone who has BTDT. This happened last year. I’m not a troll. Good luck.

I think we're talking about two different things here -- very good schools that can give merit aid, and tippy top schools like Princeton that give NO merit aid to anyone (just need-based aid). If there is a somewhat decent chance (even if unlikely) of sufficient merit aid, sure, go ahead and apply to that school. But when the school offers no merit aid to anyone and you can't afford it with a HHI that's too high for need-based aid, that's a very different story.

The Federal Gov offers unsubsidized loans regardless of need, so those funds will be available as well; not recommending going that option, but it exists.

But that is capped at $5500 - and only after you file the FAFSA and get the 100% EFC as we did