I’ve been honest with my daughter about what we can afford but….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

This. We received zero merit and zero from FAFSA so all we received (for three kids x 30 college applications) was the $5500 unsubsidized federal loan. The notion that unhooked white kids from the DCUM area can waltz in and negotiate large amounts of merit from top colleges to make it equal or better than state is simply a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Case Western

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Case Western

Wash. U. has some full tuition scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, At least from what you have posted, it is not at all that you cannot have afforded for your child to go to Princeton, it is that you have made decisions about how to spend and save that make this an impractical at this point. Your child won’t know this. Your child is about to be an adult, and apparently he’s quite intelligent. Your child won’t know, and I would hope that you would provide reasoning, that you had made choices other than saving for potential high-ranking private colleges in terms of how your family spends its income. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. We all need to make choices and balance opportunities and risks. But when you come online and say you can’t afford it, I think you know that, had been planning since your child was born, you actually could. You say you live in DC, why is that? I would never have lived somewhere as expensive as a TC as a child because my parents were saving for college. Again, that is not to say that that is better, but I feel like so many previous posters are approaching this as how to shield your child from some inevitable reality, when the reality is that their parents made certain choices, and I have no doubt that you are good parents and make good choices, but it is not as though fate has beststoe this on your child. You made decisions all along the way that resulted in this. These decisions may have been to provide your children with more time with your parents to do a shorter commuting distance, or to provide more activities or vacations or simply the comfort of a somewhat larger home. But those are the choices. At your income level, assuming You have had it for sometime and will have it for sometime, of course you can afford Princeton if that were the priority. Again, maybe many reasons, and good reasons, why it is not. But, to say you can’t afford it seems to be shielding the fact that the real answer is that you are not choosing for it to be a priority. Do you really think your kid won’t figure this out? And that you don’t want to be the person to frame that this is a complex thing, thinking about family finances over many years?

You're like a baselisk with a poison tongue, weaving a manipulative spell to wreak psychological damage while pretending concern, you're like the girl who texted her boyfriend to kill himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Case Western

Wash. U. has some full tuition scholarships.

All schools give "Some full tuition scholarships", as in 5-10 of them. But I doubt Wash U gives many and also that they don't give much merit to anyone else.


Case Western gives merit to 63% of those not getting financial aide. That is a really high number when compared to most ahead of them in "rankings". And they give substantial amount. Case also gives some full tuition merit awards, but those require additional applications and possible qualifications.

From the CDS:
Wash U gave $4.8 M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. WashU had ~7K undergrads
Case gave $50.4M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. Case had ~5300 undergrads.

There is absolutely NO comparison. Case gives 10 times the amount of non-need merit awards, yet is only 3/4 the size of student population. Wash U is an elite university and does not really give merit awards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about crossing that bridge when you get there?

That's what "elite" colleges want to to do, trusting that by then your kid is so high they can charge anything they want.

Better to avoid altogether that bridge-to-nowhere, building instead bridges to more reasonable options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Case Western

Wash. U. has some full tuition scholarships.

All schools give "Some full tuition scholarships", as in 5-10 of them. But I doubt Wash U gives many and also that they don't give much merit to anyone else.


Case Western gives merit to 63% of those not getting financial aide. That is a really high number when compared to most ahead of them in "rankings". And they give substantial amount. Case also gives some full tuition merit awards, but those require additional applications and possible qualifications.

From the CDS:
Wash U gave $4.8 M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. WashU had ~7K undergrads
Case gave $50.4M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. Case had ~5300 undergrads.

There is absolutely NO comparison. Case gives 10 times the amount of non-need merit awards, yet is only 3/4 the size of student population. Wash U is an elite university and does not really give merit awards

Wash U is NOT where anyone shoujj lol d look for financial aid. They live their full pay students and are much stingier with aid than other top ranked schools. It’s actually pretty ridiculous, considering they have a $1 billion endowment

[Anonymous]

Wash U does give some full merit scholarships to attract kids who would otherwise go to Ivy's. It is worth a shot (as is trying to get $ from Princeton IMHO)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

You make it sound easier that it really is - first, there are some T50 schools that offer scholarships, but let's not make is sound like they all do, and the amounts are not always generous. Second, yes, you can try to negotiate for more, but almost everyone knows that and tries - at most, you may squeeze out another $5K per year. That's not insignificant, but also may not change the equation enough for many families. We just went through this exercise with our oldest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

You make it sound easier that it really is - first, there are some T50 schools that offer scholarships, but let's not make is sound like they all do, and the amounts are not always generous. Second, yes, you can try to negotiate for more, but almost everyone knows that and tries - at most, you may squeeze out another $5K per year. That's not insignificant, but also may not change the equation enough for many families. We just went through this exercise with our oldest.

Because T20 schools with admission rates under 10% obviously do NOT have to give merit or even fully meet FA (FAFSA). They have plenty of full pay students who are equally qualified and willing to pay $80K/year that will happily take a spot. Nobody with 10% admission rates needs to negotiate, and most of the time they do not negotiate.

Want/need merit, you need to look at T40-100 schools where your kid is at/above 75%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Case Western

Wash. U. has some full tuition scholarships.

All schools give "Some full tuition scholarships", as in 5-10 of them. But I doubt Wash U gives many and also that they don't give much merit to anyone else.


Case Western gives merit to 63% of those not getting financial aide. That is a really high number when compared to most ahead of them in "rankings". And they give substantial amount. Case also gives some full tuition merit awards, but those require additional applications and possible qualifications.

From the CDS:
Wash U gave $4.8 M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. WashU had ~7K undergrads
Case gave $50.4M of Institutional Scholarships (Non-need based) in 2020/21. Case had ~5300 undergrads.

There is absolutely NO comparison. Case gives 10 times the amount of non-need merit awards, yet is only 3/4 the size of student population. Wash U is an elite university and does not really give merit awards

Wash. U. may not give many full tuition scholarships, but it gives enough that brilliant kids who’d have a pretty good chance of getting into, say, Princeton, and would be happy to go to Wash. U. should consider applying there, not automatically put it in the unaffordable category.

But, obviously, kids like that, who are serious and can tolerate cold winters and lack of glamor, should also look at Case Western and the University of Rochester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

You make it sound easier that it really is - first, there are some T50 schools that offer scholarships, but let's not make is sound like they all do, and the amounts are not always generous. Second, yes, you can try to negotiate for more, but almost everyone knows that and tries - at most, you may squeeze out another $5K per year. That's not insignificant, but also may not change the equation enough for many families. We just went through this exercise with our oldest.

Because T20 schools with admission rates under 10% obviously do NOT have to give merit or even fully meet FA (FAFSA). They have plenty of full pay students who are equally qualified and willing to pay $80K/year that will happily take a spot. Nobody with 10% admission rates needs to negotiate, and most of the time they do not negotiate.

Want/need merit, you need to look at T40-100 schools where your kid is at/above 75%

I think most T20 schools at least pretend to meet full need. That’s really the only reason for most rational students to bother to apply to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

You make it sound easier that it really is - first, there are some T50 schools that offer scholarships, but let's not make is sound like they all do, and the amounts are not always generous. Second, yes, you can try to negotiate for more, but almost everyone knows that and tries - at most, you may squeeze out another $5K per year. That's not insignificant, but also may not change the equation enough for many families. We just went through this exercise with our oldest.

Because T20 schools with admission rates under 10% obviously do NOT have to give merit or even fully meet FA (FAFSA). They have plenty of full pay students who are equally qualified and willing to pay $80K/year that will happily take a spot. Nobody with 10% admission rates needs to negotiate, and most of the time they do not negotiate.

Want/need merit, you need to look at T40-100 schools where your kid is at/above 75%

I think most T20 schools at least pretend to meet full need. That’s really the only reason for most rational students to bother to apply to them.

But that's determined by the FAFSA or CSS. Most DCUM readers will receive an EFC of 100% as we did, so you get only the $5500 unsubsidized loan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

You make it sound easier that it really is - first, there are some T50 schools that offer scholarships, but let's not make is sound like they all do, and the amounts are not always generous. Second, yes, you can try to negotiate for more, but almost everyone knows that and tries - at most, you may squeeze out another $5K per year. That's not insignificant, but also may not change the equation enough for many families. We just went through this exercise with our oldest.

Because T20 schools with admission rates under 10% obviously do NOT have to give merit or even fully meet FA (FAFSA). They have plenty of full pay students who are equally qualified and willing to pay $80K/year that will happily take a spot. Nobody with 10% admission rates needs to negotiate, and most of the time they do not negotiate.

Want/need merit, you need to look at T40-100 schools where your kid is at/above 75%

I think most T20 schools at least pretend to meet full need. That’s really the only reason for most rational students to bother to apply to them.

But that's determined by the FAFSA or CSS. Most DCUM readers will receive an EFC of 100% as we did, so you get only the $5500 unsubsidized loan.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, At least from what you have posted, it is not at all that you cannot have afforded for your child to go to Princeton, it is that you have made decisions about how to spend and save that make this an impractical at this point. Your child won’t know this. Your child is about to be an adult, and apparently he’s quite intelligent. Your child won’t know, and I would hope that you would provide reasoning, that you had made choices other than saving for potential high-ranking private colleges in terms of how your family spends its income. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. We all need to make choices and balance opportunities and risks. But when you come online and say you can’t afford it, I think you know that, had been planning since your child was born, you actually could. You say you live in DC, why is that? I would never have lived somewhere as expensive as a TC as a child because my parents were saving for college. Again, that is not to say that that is better, but I feel like so many previous posters are approaching this as how to shield your child from some inevitable reality, when the reality is that their parents made certain choices, and I have no doubt that you are good parents and make good choices, but it is not as though fate has beststoe this on your child. You made decisions all along the way that resulted in this. These decisions may have been to provide your children with more time with your parents to do a shorter commuting distance, or to provide more activities or vacations or simply the comfort of a somewhat larger home. But those are the choices. At your income level, assuming You have had it for sometime and will have it for sometime, of course you can afford Princeton if that were the priority. Again, maybe many reasons, and good reasons, why it is not. But, to say you can’t afford it seems to be shielding the fact that the real answer is that you are not choosing for it to be a priority. Do you really think your kid won’t figure this out? And that you don’t want to be the person to frame that this is a complex thing, thinking about family finances over many years?

You're like a baselisk with a poison tongue, weaving a manipulative spell to wreak psychological damage while pretending concern, you're like the girl who texted her boyfriend to kill himself.

+1 there are a few people here keep posting about others should be able to afford 400k for each kid otherwise they are irresponsible, or that their kids are not entitled to top colleges since these are luxuries for rich kids