If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid had perfect or close to perfect grades in AP classes, high SAT scores, strong extracurricular activities and got rejected from all the top schools, what do you think went wrong?

Didn't make strategic use of ED?

Agree. People seem blind to this. It isn’t a silver bullet, but it’s as close as you’re going to get for the kids we’re talking about on this thread.

ED is a small advantage, but it isn’t as good as it looks, once you pull out recruited athletes, legacies, Questbridge etc.

While every college has different ED-fill-rates, ED is the top reason Kid A gets into UChicago, Northwestern, WashU, etc. and similar stats Kid B doesn’t. It’s remarkable how resistant to this people are. Nobody wants it to be true, but it is for so many colleges. If you want in, apply ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

This is ridiculous. My white NMF kid got into several top schools, and the same for many white and Asian NMF friends (our school has over 50 NMFs). A few were disappointed, but MANY got top admissions. Btw, they don't need "top grades" to become a finalist. How you define "merit" is incredibly narrow. You have mistaken yourself for an admissions dean. What you think colleges want is not the end-all be-all of what they actually want.

[Anonymous]

Go look at a T30 school crew, XC, lacrosse, or field hockey roster, and pay attention, particularly on the women's side. It is pretty much all white kids from expensive suburbs of Boston, Philly main line, SF, NYC, Chicago, DC, Seattle, LA, and then kids from Pinecrest School, St. Johns, Hathaway Brown, Hockaday, Caitlin Gables, Westminster Schools, and private international schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

If you think NMF is an accurate measurement of a top student then you don’t understand how it’s determined. It’s just ignorant.

I assume this poster thinks race is a better indicator of a top student.

I think an overall appraisal of a students record is better than NMF. You realize that plenty of NMSF kids don’t bother continuing and that NMSF standards vary by state. You probably have a ton of kids in Maryland who would be NMSF if they lived in West Virginia. It’s just a incredibly stupid way of gauging anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

There are only 15,000 because they cap it at 15,000, Einstein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

There are only 15,000 because they cap it at 15,000, Einstein.

+1 lmao. It’s astounding that people think their kid is unique or many people lack critical thinking skills and basic understanding of statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

This is ridiculous. My white NMF kid got into several top schools, and the same for many white and Asian NMF friends (our school has over 50 NMFs). A few were disappointed, but MANY got top admissions. Btw, they don't need "top grades" to become a finalist. How you define "merit" is incredibly narrow. You have mistaken yourself for an admissions dean. What you think colleges want is not the end-all be-all of what they actually want.

I think you actually do need good grades to become a finalist -- you don't need them to become a semifinalist (based on test scores only). To go from semifinalist to finalist, they look at your grades and your principal has to vouch for you.
--
a former NMSF who always got fantastic test scores but blew off classes she didn't like and did not have a super GPA.

[Anonymous]

For the two kids I know who had this happen this year (nephew being one of them), neither put out a strong preference for one school over the others.

My nephew will graduate #1 in his class and does not have an acceptance. He applied to 18 universities and all were the schools that are often discussed here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

If you think NMF is an accurate measurement of a top student then you don’t understand how it’s determined. It’s just ignorant.

I assume this poster thinks race is a better indicator of a top student.

I think an overall appraisal of a students record is better than NMF. You realize that plenty of NMSF kids don’t bother continuing and that NMSF standards vary by state. You probably have a ton of kids in Maryland who would be NMSF if they lived in West Virginia. It’s just a incredibly stupid way of gauging anything.

Yup. Amazing marketing ploy by College Board! People are obsessed by the results of the practice test rather than the actual SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the two kids I know who had this happen this year (nephew being one of them), neither put out a strong preference for one school over the others.

My nephew will graduate #1 in his class and does not have an acceptance. He applied to 18 universities and all were the schools that are often discussed here.

ALL of them? Really dumb move there.

I had all both kids choose at least one non-flagship state school (safe enough admissions-wise that yield protection was unlikely to be an issue) to apply to as a true safety. Those schools usually have no app fee or extra essays.

There are schools still accepting apps. Perhaps a gap year is in order?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

If you think NMF is an accurate measurement of a top student then you don’t understand how it’s determined. It’s just ignorant.

I assume this poster thinks race is a better indicator of a top student.

I think an overall appraisal of a students record is better than NMF. You realize that plenty of NMSF kids don’t bother continuing and that NMSF standards vary by state. You probably have a ton of kids in Maryland who would be NMSF if they lived in West Virginia. It’s just a incredibly stupid way of gauging anything.

Yup. Amazing marketing ploy by College Board! People are obsessed by the results of the practice test rather than the actual SAT.

Well, there are schools that give full rides to NMFs. Not schools discussed on DCUM much. For a few years, all Florida state schools have full rides to NMFs including OOS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

Roughly 30,000 students get a 34 or above on the ACT each year.

My kid score well over 1500 on the SAT at 13…..and there are many other young kids who do. Scoring 1500+ in junior year of high school is just not as impressive as it was 20 or 40 years ago. I could see why top collages use the SAT as a “we will read your application” metric only.
When I was growing up, the only kids who had a shot were at private schools or lived in NY and got into the NY STEM high school. Information about topics is getting easier to get ahold of thanks to the internet. Many states have top STEM high schools where smart kids can learn hard topics. It’s by no means 100% fair or perfect but it’s much better than 20+ years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

Roughly 30,000 students get a 34 or above on the ACT each year.

Nope, only 20,900 of 1.7m takers. Roughly 1%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the two kids I know who had this happen this year (nephew being one of them), neither put out a strong preference for one school over the others.

My nephew will graduate #1 in his class and does not have an acceptance. He applied to 18 universities and all were the schools that are often discussed here.

So he had no safeties? Well, there’s your answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

I don’t get this. You do the interview as one single part of your application, to try to bolster your application. When did the expectation become that if you interview, you’re in?