Anonymous wrote:For the kids I know it was usually one of the two:
1. ECs were not that strong and/or couldn't convey the drive behind the ECs. 2. Put lots of effort into preparing the app for their top choice, got rejected or deferred in the early round, were blindsided by that and spread themselves too thin preparing apps for another 20 top schools.
Please. The core period of these kids' high school experience was during the pandemic. Strong EC opportunities were not even available to most of them, especially in this area.
Mine kept up ECs during pandemic. Not to the same levels, and they looked different, but still engaged -- Music, arts, sports, job, service
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
The Asian kid in the bold will fit in nicely with others - Asians or non-Asians - at top schools in the US There's nearly no one at top schools who aren't like this, unless you are talking about diversity admits such as legacies, athletes, or development donors.
I am the PP who wrote that. Mine isn't like this. I mean, she is a smidge, but not to this level. Every time this kid won another thing, I could see her tense up, and I was like, hey, you did plenty. Do you want your life to be like that? She got into several Ivies/T10, and the people she's met who were admitted exhibit a range of competitive achievement (not linked to URM or sports, but isn't sports recruit an achievement on its own anyway?). All this to say, that what you are saying is not really accurate.
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
The Asian kid in the bold will fit in nicely with others - Asians or non-Asians - at top schools in the US There's nearly no one at top schools who aren't like this, unless you are talking about diversity admits such as legacies, athletes, or development donors.
I am the PP who wrote that. Mine isn't like this. I mean, she is a smidge, but not to this level. Every time this kid won another thing, I could see her tense up, and I was like, hey, you did plenty. Do you want your life to be like that? She got into several Ivies/T10, and the people she's met who were admitted exhibit a range of competitive achievement (not linked to URM or sports, but isn't sports recruit an achievement on its own anyway?). All this to say, that what you are saying is not really accurate.
If your kid is very ambitious academically or otherwise, it's the same whether or not your kid is Asian. If you are trying to say your kid is more white than Asian, whatever. I remember in HS, kids usually said they get all As without evening trying, or that they score 800 on the SAT with no prep but by filling in the bubbles randomly. Whatever works for you.
Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.
What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.
Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.
PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.
DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.
Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.
People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.
What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.
I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.
The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.
oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.
You didn't actually read what I wrote.
I did. You think "merit" isn't about test scores, but other achievements, which can be bought and paid for. And legacies were also bought. Don't kid yourself.
If you think we shouldn't look at test scores because it can be bought by prepping, then how is looking at other achievements which can also be bought a better way to guage "merit"?
First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.
MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.
The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.
Well, your first sentence shows you didn't comprehend it. You are claiming things I did not say, and rambling on with a host of topics to consttuct this victim/hero narrative. If you can't see that, it will always be a problem.
Your attempt to make legacies appear to have "merit" was obvious. And their "merit" was largely bought. That's the point.
But, my point still stands:
First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.
MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.
The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. You think the rich legacy kids have more "merit". They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.
The problem is that some people, like you, actually think that legacy wealthy kids have more "merit" than regular MC kids
All of this is wrong. Firstly, I never equate legacy with merit. That is a lack pf comprehension on your part.
Secondly, the Asian MC parents I know have spent way more n=money than I have on enrichment -- A++, Dr. Li, CTY ring a bell. My kid's friend's family won't pay for a $65n prom ticket but paid for tons of test prep geared to getting into the STEM magnet. Enrichment is privilege even if the family sacrifices for it (& I know many they do).
Thirdly, open your thick skull and see that I and others are trying to help your kid(s)! They only have their hard work and smarts (& enrichment, let's be honest here). What they still need is a means to stand out from the many other kids (of all ethnicities, including *gasp* legacies) who do the same. Newsflash: there are MANY kids of many races/ethnicities who have "hard work" and "smarts." Those alone are not enough. Different and interesting do not equate to rich. We are not rich. My kid is getting significant FA to go to an Ivy and was accepted to several. It is why we can afford to let her go rather than got to UMD. She does not have moneyed ECs.
But, again, make yourself the victim. And.of course the hero. That seems to be the only narrative you will accept even though it is fictional.
Also, you contradicted yourself on the financial end. Didn't you just tell us that all Asian parents are excellent financial planners who can afford anything? And than all the tippy top students are going to UMD, so affordability isn't even an issue?
Please leave the drama to the professionals, and take some of the good advice you are getting and use it!
LOL.. where in my post did I state this? Are you delusional? There are several different people posting on here.
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
The Asian kid in the bold will fit in nicely with others - Asians or non-Asians - at top schools in the US There's nearly no one at top schools who aren't like this, unless you are talking about diversity admits such as legacies, athletes, or development donors.
I am the PP who wrote that. Mine isn't like this. I mean, she is a smidge, but not to this level. Every time this kid won another thing, I could see her tense up, and I was like, hey, you did plenty. Do you want your life to be like that? She got into several Ivies/T10, and the people she's met who were admitted exhibit a range of competitive achievement (not linked to URM or sports, but isn't sports recruit an achievement on its own anyway?). All this to say, that what you are saying is not really accurate.
If your kid is very ambitious academically or otherwise, it's the same whether or not your kid is Asian. If you are trying to say your kid is more white than Asian, whatever. I remember in HS, kids usually said they get all As without evening trying, or that they score 800 on the SAT with no prep but by filling in the bubbles randomly. Whatever works for you.
I said none of this. You are that person who either can't comprehend what others are saying here or just has an agenda. What you are saying does not relate to what I wrote.
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
Sadly, to what end? Who really cares that he went to that so-called "top" school (other than his parents)? He would have been a success anyway -- maybe more so had he enjoyed his childhood and discovered true passions. Look around you folks ... what are people actually doing in their adult lives and how did they get there? What you are doing to your kids is not necessary.
This is what parents need to recognize. Anyone who has a chance at a T20 school will succeed in life wherever they land and grow. As long as they have a good attitude and are not depressed because they didn't get into a T20 school. Once you get your first job, nobody cares where you went to school (except for elite business schools or law schools---and those are obviously grad programs). Yes, there are some connections made from T20 schools, but those only really benefit lower income/1st gen/etc students at HYPM. The elite, full pay students at Harvard already had most of those connections from their families before getting into Harvard. They would still have those connections if they attended a T50 school.
I want my kid to be excited about college and grown and learn while there, not be depressed they didn't get into their top 10 choices.
Signed parent whose kid didn't get into ED choice and got WL at 2nd highest "ranked" school, Kid happily attending a T30 school they almost ED2 to but didn't due to being "deferred" at ED1 and wanted to see result. Kid was also seriously considering their "True Safety" because they love it as well and it's an amazing school, because we made sure kid had a few "True Safeties" they'd be happy to attend. Yes, kid was disappointed with rejection and WL, but moved on within 1 day of each and got excited about remaining choices, because they are all great schools that kid actually wants to attend
I agree. The highest performing kid with stats and ECs who has a chance in any top school are going to do just as well in safeties also. And for an MC or UMC kid who are 100% EFC, the merit $$$ many universities give to attract the top talent, is no less than a generous "signing bonus".
If a great education can provide a leg up in life for a student and a safety college is providing them that, then having a couple of hundred thousand dollars in your pocket is also providing a leg up.
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
Sadly, to what end? Who really cares that he went to that so-called "top" school (other than his parents)? He would have been a success anyway -- maybe more so had he enjoyed his childhood and discovered true passions. Look around you folks ... what are people actually doing in their adult lives and how did they get there? What you are doing to your kids is not necessary.
This is what parents need to recognize. Anyone who has a chance at a T20 school will succeed in life wherever they land and grow. As long as they have a good attitude and are not depressed because they didn't get into a T20 school. Once you get your first job, nobody cares where you went to school (except for elite business schools or law schools---and those are obviously grad programs). Yes, there are some connections made from T20 schools, but those only really benefit lower income/1st gen/etc students at HYPM. The elite, full pay students at Harvard already had most of those connections from their families before getting into Harvard. They would still have those connections if they attended a T50 school.
I want my kid to be excited about college and grown and learn while there, not be depressed they didn't get into their top 10 choices.
Signed parent whose kid didn't get into ED choice and got WL at 2nd highest "ranked" school, Kid happily attending a T30 school they almost ED2 to but didn't due to being "deferred" at ED1 and wanted to see result. Kid was also seriously considering their "True Safety" because they love it as well and it's an amazing school, because we made sure kid had a few "True Safeties" they'd be happy to attend. Yes, kid was disappointed with rejection and WL, but moved on within 1 day of each and got excited about remaining choices, because they are all great schools that kid actually wants to attend
I agree. The highest performing kid with stats and ECs who has a chance in any top school are going to do just as well in safeties also. And for an MC or UMC kid who are 100% EFC, the merit $$$ many universities give to attract the top talent, is no less than a generous "signing bonus".
If a great education can provide a leg up in life for a student and a safety college is providing them that, then having a couple of hundred thousand dollars in your pocket is also providing a leg up.
Is that the same for legacies? The network you can get at top universities is much higher caliber than at "safeties". If the purpose of higher ed is to be the great equalizer, then they should do away with legacies.
Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.
Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.
I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.
Sadly, to what end? Who really cares that he went to that so-called "top" school (other than his parents)? He would have been a success anyway -- maybe more so had he enjoyed his childhood and discovered true passions. Look around you folks ... what are people actually doing in their adult lives and how did they get there? What you are doing to your kids is not necessary.
This is what parents need to recognize. Anyone who has a chance at a T20 school will succeed in life wherever they land and grow. As long as they have a good attitude and are not depressed because they didn't get into a T20 school. Once you get your first job, nobody cares where you went to school (except for elite business schools or law schools---and those are obviously grad programs). Yes, there are some connections made from T20 schools, but those only really benefit lower income/1st gen/etc students at HYPM. The elite, full pay students at Harvard already had most of those connections from their families before getting into Harvard. They would still have those connections if they attended a T50 school.
I want my kid to be excited about college and grown and learn while there, not be depressed they didn't get into their top 10 choices.
Signed parent whose kid didn't get into ED choice and got WL at 2nd highest "ranked" school, Kid happily attending a T30 school they almost ED2 to but didn't due to being "deferred" at ED1 and wanted to see result. Kid was also seriously considering their "True Safety" because they love it as well and it's an amazing school, because we made sure kid had a few "True Safeties" they'd be happy to attend. Yes, kid was disappointed with rejection and WL, but moved on within 1 day of each and got excited about remaining choices, because they are all great schools that kid actually wants to attend
"Signed parent whose kid didn't get into ED choice and got WL at 2nd highest "ranked" school, "
Funny as hell. This is the first poster I've seen taking a soft rejection as a bragging right. I suppose bragging rights are all relative. If the kid ended up at a T30, a waitlist at #2 is like the kid "almost" got in.
Not bragging at all! Pointing out that my kid had rejections at top 2 choices, yet still had real safeties that are amazing and would be thrilled to attend (my kid almost picked their one safety) So we are a family that got rejections at top choices, yet are still excited about remaining choices because we picked carefully. Frankly I could care less about rankings---I'm all about the fit academically and otherwise for each college. My kid wanted less than 6K but more than 3-4K so we searched for best choices that met that criteria
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