If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

This is not accurate. Being a female is not a hook for Ivies. The "tippy" top students are not getting rejected overall. Many of the "tippy" top students in her school went to T20 schools, and many went to UMD, but that was mostly for financial reasons. Some chose T30 schools because they got great scholarships. But, I also think it's great that there are lots of bright kids at a variety of schools. Just stop trying to make humble brag Asian boys by making them the victim. Maybe if they can't get into the schools they want because they are only STEM focused, they should diversify their interests and skillset. Or, if they are truly tippy top and STEM focused, they should be able to get into a niche focused school like MIT, GT or CalTech. My kid's friends did. What you're spinning here is just drama (which, BTW, would be a GREAT area for Asian males to stand out).

The racist trope of Asian-Americans not being multi-faceted is something that makes parents of average kids feel better. Most of these kids are extremely diversified and excel in STEM, in Humanities, ECs, sports, theatre, community service. Unfortunately they are not chameleons who can change their skin color.

Yes, being a female is a hook for Ivies or Ivies+

BTW - for many majors, UMD is T10. And that is mainly because many tippy top students from public magnet schools from DMV have gone there for these majors.

The Asian-American kids in our circle who have gone to UMD, are all able to afford any college without any aid because their parents have high HHI and saving for college and grad/professional school is a priority. However, many more of these families are opting for UMD because UMD is ranked very high for the majors they want, and these families believe that a fantastic education is the panacea for many problems. These children are also clued into what needs to be done to get the plum job offers and they do not shirk from doing the internships, research, publishing papers, ECs, leadership opportunities etc at UMD.

It does not hurt that UMD showers these students with generous merit scholarships to the extent that sometimes it costs nothing or only several thousand dollars for 4 years of college for these kids. These UMC families are savvy enough to know that the $$$ saved can be utilized by their kids to get even more of a financial real leg-up in life.

You are flat out wrong about female being an Ivy hook. It is the opposite. Being female makes it harder as more female students are competing.

UMD is a great choice. Mine was offered more than full tuition, but she preferred other schools' programs.

Not sure why you are spending so much time going on and on about how well Asian families plan financially. Talk about stereotyping. When it suits you, of course. But, yay to everyone who plans financially. Well done. Many of us also need FA, and many of the Asian families I know chose schools (umd or a big scholarship elsewhere) for financial aid over Ivies etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.

You didn't actually read what I wrote.

I did. You think "merit" isn't about test scores, but other achievements, which can be bought and paid for. And legacies were also bought. Don't kid yourself.

If you think we shouldn't look at test scores because it can be bought by prepping, then how is looking at other achievements which can also be bought a better way to guage "merit"?

First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.

MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.

The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.

Well,they have ability to pay full tuition. And donate millions. You can thank them for that.

[Anonymous]

According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.

[Anonymous]

My kids problem was they didn't have safeties that they really wanted to go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.

Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the kids I know it was usually one of the two:

1. ECs were not that strong and/or couldn't convey the drive behind the ECs.
2. Put lots of effort into preparing the app for their top choice, got rejected or deferred in the early round, were blindsided by that and spread themselves too thin preparing apps for another 20 top schools.

Please. The core period of these kids' high school experience was during the pandemic. Strong EC opportunities were not even available to most of them, especially in this area.

And yet some students found a way to have strong ECs. The pandemic changed a lot of things and it gave some kids a chance to shine with less competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.

You didn't actually read what I wrote.

I did. You think "merit" isn't about test scores, but other achievements, which can be bought and paid for. And legacies were also bought. Don't kid yourself.

If you think we shouldn't look at test scores because it can be bought by prepping, then how is looking at other achievements which can also be bought a better way to guage "merit"?

First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.

MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.

The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.

Well, your first sentence shows you didn't comprehend it. You are claiming things I did not say, and rambling on with a host of topics to consttuct this victim/hero narrative. If you can't see that, it will always be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.

Well,they have ability to pay full tuition. And donate millions. You can thank them for that.

Right.. as I said, they are buying their way in. Has zero to do with "merit" as a PP stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.

Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.

I am so sorry. My kid had a similar situation with violin. But, she stuck with it because it was her passion, and that showed. Are there any other interests your boys might develop that would add something different? Art? Theatre? Service (non tutoring)? Mine also pursued other types of activities, but always in areas that genuinely interested her. She chose schools for fit and tailored apps to those schools and was accepted to several top schools. Or, you can go all out on competitions. One Asian boy did that and got lots of top admits. I personally think this isn't healthy though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white male perfect student got into 4 safeties and rejected/WL at 14 others for CS. It was insane. Saying he was a white male was application suicide.

What is your definition of "perfect?" Did he have skills, experiences and perspectives that added or made him stand out to the places he applied? Were his essays excellent? Did he submit supplements? Did he tailor supplemental essays to specifics of the universities? Did he demonstrate interest? Did he have regional, state and national (not AP Scholar) awards? Did he highlight honors and ECs well? Did he demonstrate leadership? That's what it takes. My kid did all that. She revised her essay and honors/ECs when early admissions didn't pan out. She kept workjng to earn more awards and dud. She also found much to love about her safeties should top schools not pan out. There are just not enough spaces for high achieving kids. What you think is perfect may not be enough or what the college is looking for. I really hope he finds things to love about his school. As a high achiever, he will do well wherever he goes.

Yes, he did all of that. National recognition, industry recognition for research, captain of school teams, wrote/published commercial software, top 1% of his class, played high school sport, multiple awards. His essays were read by a group of AOs visiting his school and he was told they were "exceptional". So, yes, an incredibly dynamic kid and I have no doubt he will be a huge success nor does anyone that knows him. But everyone is stunned at the schools he got rejected/WL from. He was perplexed but moved on quickly and had committed himself emotionally to the safety where I have no doubt he will shine. But for everyone who thinks that there was just something lacking that would make him too flat or one dimensional for a college that could explain the results- anyone who was involved in his process doesn't see it. What we do see is very few of his demographic profile getting into this program when objectively and subjectively he is a top candidate. He is not the only one - there is a profile of super dimensional top kids not getting in and its where they are white/asian and unhooked. Either you go to a top prep school, you are child of faculty or you are recruited for athletics or you are URM or you are not getting in, no matter how big your impact has been.

PP here. I am very sorry your kid did not get the admits but glad he is getting more enthusiastic about his school. FWIW, mine fits that profile and did get into 3 T10. Many other white/Asian friends too. Not legacy or URM or sport recruit or any of that. Really worked those supplements and had a variety of awards that helped her stand out. Recommendations are also a factor, and who knows about that. It is certainly a bummer for your kid, no doubt, and I'm sure he would thrive at a top school, but everyone in this profile isn't getting this result.

DP here. PP, being a female is a hook.

Usually it is the Asian-American males who are unhooked that are not getting accepted in many Ivy schools. But, a great benefit of this is that schools like UMD are attracting tippy top Asian-American kids and are now ranked very high in STEM majors. My kid's safety was UMD. He got into 2 T-10 schools for CS, and realized that their program was not giving him any edge over UMD CS honors program for the additional $200K we would spend. He is getting an UMD CS education for practically zero cost.

People bought into the concept that the top college was providing a "leg-up" to students and that made it prestigious and worthwhile. However, now people have realized that most of these admissions is not based on merit, and the leg-up does not happen for Asian-American males.

What remains important for most high performing Asian-Americans is getting a great education in in-demand STEM majors, getting internship and research opportunities and making the professional networks and connections to get a job out of college. Then there are other tangible leg-up of not having student debt, getting merit $$$ (especially for UMC kids with 100% EFC) and having savings in the bank as you get launched.
The current job market is providing a lot of opportunities for the top students regardless of which college they go to. In some ways, the racist gatekeeping that the top colleges did with Asian-American males has resulted in a boost to the state colleges and made them more prestigious.

I hope that the top colleges continue to reject the top Asian-American students so that the state schools continue to get the strongest candidates.

The admissions are based on merit. Just not the merit you want. You don't decide what is merit. Why should SAT score merit trump the merit of another skill noted by a national award or the merit of entrepreneurship or ingenuity? There are many types of merit. Perhaps you could snub your nose at legacy or athletic recruits, but those kids are all highly qualified too. There are just not enough places at these schools for kids who want to go. And, it's not like they are excluding Asian kids -- they have a significant percentage of Asian students per class.

oh please... what "skill" does a legacy or a person with a very wealthy parent have? These kids have the privilege and wealth to develope "skills" and have great e.c. that the vast majority of kids do not.

You didn't actually read what I wrote.

I did. You think "merit" isn't about test scores, but other achievements, which can be bought and paid for. And legacies were also bought. Don't kid yourself.

If you think we shouldn't look at test scores because it can be bought by prepping, then how is looking at other achievements which can also be bought a better way to guage "merit"?

First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.

MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.

The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.

Well, your first sentence shows you didn't comprehend it. You are claiming things I did not say, and rambling on with a host of topics to consttuct this victim/hero narrative. If you can't see that, it will always be a problem.

Your attempt to make legacies appear to have "merit" was obvious. And their "merit" was largely bought. That's the point.

But, my point still stands:

First gen and low income students can't buy those things, so colleges lower the bar for them.

MC/UMC families can't afford the same types of experiences, lessons, whatnot that very wealthy families can. And these MC families don't have the legacy hook.

The only these kids have is their hard work and smarts, but clearly, that's not enough for you. You think the rich legacy kids have more "merit". They are too rich to have the low income hook, but too poor to buy legacy status, or have interesting/different achievements, like be an award winning equistrian, or whatever.

The problem is that some people, like you, actually think that legacy wealthy kids have more "merit" than regular MC kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to our admissions counselor, last year Cornell only accepted 11% of the kids that applied with a 1600 SAT. Let that sink in. Once you reach a certain threshold, colleges don't care because they know you can do the work and be successful. The competition for CS and Engineering is fierce at every school and demand is extremely high. I know my Asian friends are disappointed when their kids are in fact rejected from these highly rejective schools. But, Asian students are over represented at all the T30 schools so, looking at the numbers, there just isn't any race based conspiracy against Asian students.

Asian American parent here. Too many kids just seem similar to one another. I worry for my tennis playing smart boys. That is the only thing they are really good at and love. At the same time, they most likely won’t be D1 recruits.

Why do you "worry" for your boys? Seriously, if they're smart and hard-working, they'll do just fine -- better than fine, actually. Possibly being rejected form a T30 school is NOT something to lose sleep over. Surely you understand there are lots of really good schools that will provide them with a great education and solid future opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids problem was they didn't have safeties that they really wanted to go to.

Well that was your job as a parent to make sure you kid DID have true safeties (defined as ones you can afford and actually want to attend, acceptance rate over 50% and your kid's scores at/above 75%). Otherwise, you must prepare them for possible disappointment that they don't have a college to attend that they actually want to attend. Applying to all T20 schools doesn't improve your chances; changes are still slim to none no matter what your scores/grades/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids problem was they didn't have safeties that they really wanted to go to.

Well that was your job as a parent to make sure you kid DID have true safeties (defined as ones you can afford and actually want to attend, acceptance rate over 50% and your kid's scores at/above 75%). Otherwise, you must prepare them for possible disappointment that they don't have a college to attend that they actually want to attend. Applying to all T20 schools doesn't improve your chances; changes are still slim to none no matter what your scores/grades/etc.

Why doesn't it? They are different colleges, each one is looking for their own preferable types of students. One person's trash is another person's treasure. Admissions are sometimes quite random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids problem was they didn't have safeties that they really wanted to go to.

Well that was your job as a parent to make sure you kid DID have true safeties (defined as ones you can afford and actually want to attend, acceptance rate over 50% and your kid's scores at/above 75%). Otherwise, you must prepare them for possible disappointment that they don't have a college to attend that they actually want to attend. Applying to all T20 schools doesn't improve your chances; changes are still slim to none no matter what your scores/grades/etc.

Why doesn't it? They are different colleges, each one is looking for their own preferable types of students. One person's trash is another person's treasure. Admissions are sometimes quite random.

Many of the T20 schools are quite different from each other, so some of them would NOT be a good fit for an applicant. Thus someone applying to all of them would obviously be making status and prestige as his/her first priority -- sad but typical.