If your kid was a top student and didn’t get into a top college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

Roughly 30,000 students get a 34 or above on the ACT each year.

Nope, only 20,900 of 1.7m takers. Roughly 1%

True. People like to blur the admission process by stating hundreds of thousands of students get high ACT/SAT scores but that is not true. These scores reflect basic math/reading. Yes some students can prep their way to a much higher school, but for most a high score goes along with high grades, plenty of activities etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

Roughly 30,000 students get a 34 or above on the ACT each year.

Nope, only 20,900 of 1.7m takers. Roughly 1%

True. People like to blur the admission process by stating hundreds of thousands of students get high ACT/SAT scores but that is not true. These scores reflect basic math/reading. Yes some students can prep their way to a much higher school, but for most a high score goes along with high grades, plenty of activities etc.

It’s not 100,000+ but it’s so not 20,000. The 1% number doesn’t include superscoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i interview for a reasonably competitive college. i was very impressed with and tried to write really nice recommendations for most of the students this year. most of my interviewees were either denied or waitlisted. there are a very large number of talented students applying nationally.

Seems like a waste of time to interview them then. My friend did this for their school and stopped, because the people they spoke to rarely were accepted.

I don’t get this. You do the interview as one single part of your application, to try to bolster your application. When did the expectation become that if you interview, you’re in?

You are all over this board accusing parents of having feelings and opinions they haven’t expressed. Why do you assume the worst of parents? PP who interviews said most were denied even with great interview feedback. Another person said it seems like a waste of time. No one has said they thought that was the ticket.

Not every feeling parents have is entitlement. Learn nuance of human thought and emotion and stop making assumptions so you can snap back with a snarky response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

This is ridiculous. My white NMF kid got into several top schools, and the same for many white and Asian NMF friends (our school has over 50 NMFs). A few were disappointed, but MANY got top admissions. Btw, they don't need "top grades" to become a finalist. How you define "merit" is incredibly narrow. You have mistaken yourself for an admissions dean. What you think colleges want is not the end-all be-all of what they actually want.

I think you actually do need good grades to become a finalist -- you don't need them to become a semifinalist (based on test scores only). To go from semifinalist to finalist, they look at your grades and your principal has to vouch for you.
--
a former NMSF who always got fantastic test scores but blew off classes she didn't like and did not have a super GPA.

My kid just made NMF. You just need to do the essays really, get the principal rubber stamp, show some effort. Maybe bad grades would be a problem, but you don't need great grades. The vast majority of nmsf get nmf. The ones I know who didn't couldn't be bothered to do the essay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to redefine your idea of 'top college'. How can you have hundreds of thousands of 'top' students across the country not getting into 'top' colleges? There's no logic to thinking all of them SHOULD have gotten in. It's that your idea of what makes a 'top college' is simply wrong.

There are not hundreds of thousands of top students. NMF across the country are only 15000 students. They usually have top grades and ACT/SAT scores to become a finalist along with high PSAT scores. These students have been shut out at many of the “top colleges”. Colleges take who they want based on criteria that has nothing to do with merit.

Roughly 30,000 students get a 34 or above on the ACT each year.

Nope, only 20,900 of 1.7m takers. Roughly 1%

True. People like to blur the admission process by stating hundreds of thousands of students get high ACT/SAT scores but that is not true. These scores reflect basic math/reading. Yes some students can prep their way to a much higher school, but for most a high score goes along with high grades, plenty of activities etc.

It’s not 100,000+ but it’s so not 20,000. The 1% number doesn’t include superscoring.

It’s 20,900. Google how many students get 34.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the kids I know it was usually one of the two:

1. ECs were not that strong and/or couldn't convey the drive behind the ECs.
2. Put lots of effort into preparing the app for their top choice, got rejected or deferred in the early round, were blindsided by that and spread themselves too thin preparing apps for another 20 top schools.

How do you know this? You have no real idea. Pure conjecture.

Like anyone has a real idea. You don’t get to see your file with AO notes

Yea, I get that. But it's one thing to guess why you/your own kid didn't get in and another to guess why somebody else didn't. You're just not close enough to everything involved even to be in a position to guess. That's why threads like these annoy me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definition of “top” colleges was too narrow.

x1000000000


EXACTLY THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Only 2,500 stand alone National Merit Scholars picked by the foundation have ALL one can achieve in this process. They screen all finalists and pick ones who have SAT/ACT, GPA, class rank, AP scores, course rigor, college courses, essay writing skills, school recommendations, extracurriculars, leadership skills, character, dedicated community service and vision of future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only 2,500 stand alone National Merit Scholars picked by the foundation have ALL one can achieve in this process. They screen all finalists and pick ones who have SAT/ACT, GPA, class rank, AP scores, course rigor, college courses, essay writing skills, school recommendations, extracurriculars, leadership skills, character, dedicated community service and vision of future.

It is really difficult to get picked by the foundation for their scholarship. It’s a small amount but it’s highly selective. It’s much easier to become scholar by picking a participating college or having a parent whose employer is a sponsor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only 2,500 stand alone National Merit Scholars picked by the foundation have ALL one can achieve in this process. They screen all finalists and pick ones who have SAT/ACT, GPA, class rank, AP scores, course rigor, college courses, essay writing skills, school recommendations, extracurriculars, leadership skills, character, dedicated community service and vision of future.

So what? If you need a 224 in Maryland to become a NMSF but only a 207 in North Dakota or West Virginia, it’s not really based on merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

Goodness gracious. Which HS is this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

Goodness gracious. Which HS is this?

I can almost -- almost understand kids "sharing this information freely." Almost. But "parents getting this information without even trying?" Nope. Certainly not to the point of remembering it all to the degree that this poster did. That takes effort. Unhealthy effort. Obsessive effort. Insane effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s roughly 400 kids graduating from DCs school this year. The top kids have been in the same classes all 4 years and know each other’s ranking and test scores. The top 2% of graduating class (8 kids) all had 4.0 uw and 1500+ SATs. This is how acceptances went for them:

1. Carnegie Mellon (shut out of Ivies)
2. UMD (shut out of Ivies and top SLACs)
3. UMD (shut out of Ivies)
4. Johns Hopkins (recruited athlete)
5. Yale (first gen)
6. UMD
7. Penn (first gen)
8. Princeton (URM)

All great, hard working, top scores, excellent EC kids, but like PP said there just isn’t enough room for all high achievers at the tippy top.

And all eight are pathetic for knowing each other's grades, rankings, test scores, and college application choices and results -- and any parent who knows all of this about all eight is even more pathetic.

The kids share this information freely with each other and obsess over it for most of their senior year. Parents get the information without even trying. In fact, I think PP substituted UMD for another state school because it matches what I know about kids I’ve never met at our school.

Goodness gracious. Which HS is this?

I can almost -- almost understand kids "sharing this information freely." Almost. But "parents getting this information without even trying?" Nope. Certainly not to the point of remembering it all to the degree that this poster did. That takes effort. Unhealthy effort. Obsessive effort. Insane effort.

Im guessing you don’t live in the DMV. If your kid has class with these kids, they’re going to know and talk about it when they’re all stressing about applications (and rejections in particular because “why Larla but not me?”) . I will say they’re all very kind and supportive of each other though. Impressively so. Mine just lets out the sad in the privacy of home.