Brian Flores lawsuit alleging racism in NFL

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

You mean other than the Giants’ vacancy that’s part of the foundation of this lawsuit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Oh, come on, it takes some real effort to contort that into a racial issue. The point simply is that any employee - regardless of color - who publicly accuses his former employer of unethical behavior is going to have a difficult time getting that same job again, particularly when there are only 31 other similar jobs out there, only a few are open at any given moment, and many of the other owners likely engage in similar (or even completely unrelated) ethically questionable behavior.

1) He made the accusation in accordance with filing this discrimination lawsuit, so I don't know that his current objective is to find another job.

2) I'm so confused why so many people here think this isn't a clear race based issue thats running prevalent in the league right now. Minnesota got their hire (jim harbaugh) leaked while interviewing a black coaching candidate. Good on Flores for exposing the scum that runs the NFL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.

You have the causation all turned around here, which I think is why you're having trouble understanding this (unless you are deliberately misunderstanding). The Rooney Rule did not create these issues of racism in the NFL, it was the NFL's attempt to address racism in hiring practices to avoid a lawsuit like this one. What is clear from Flores' lawsuit is that the Rooney Rule is not working because teams are continuing discriminatory hiring practices despite the rule. The discrimination claims are not based on violation of the Rooney Rule itself, it is based on the actual racism going on in the hiring practices of NFL teams. These violations of the intent of the Rooney Rule are evidence of teams' discriminatory practices because it demonstrates that, even in the face of ample evidence of past discriminatory practices, teams are doubling down on those practices with full knowledge of the effects rather than trying to eliminate racism in their hiring practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.

You have the causation all turned around here, which I think is why you're having trouble understanding this (unless you are deliberately misunderstanding). The Rooney Rule did not create these issues of racism in the NFL, it was the NFL's attempt to address racism in hiring practices to avoid a lawsuit like this one. What is clear from Flores' lawsuit is that the Rooney Rule is not working because teams are continuing discriminatory hiring practices despite the rule. The discrimination claims are not based on violation of the Rooney Rule itself, it is based on the actual racism going on in the hiring practices of NFL teams. These violations of the intent of the Rooney Rule are evidence of teams' discriminatory practices because it demonstrates that, even in the face of ample evidence of past discriminatory practices, teams are doubling down on those practices with full knowledge of the effects rather than trying to eliminate racism in their hiring practices.

some good points, but it still overlooks why the Giants wanted Daboll over Flores. Are you seriously arguing it was because of race?
ll

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

I think you don't know anything about football if you think taking an assistant head coach job makes a black person a lock for the eventual head coaching position.

[Anonymous]

May I compliment everyone here? Sports and Racism, two of the most volatile subject out there, yet this long thread has been remarkably free of insults and rancor, and quite informative actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

I think you don't know anything about football if you think taking an assistant head coach job makes a black person a lock for the eventual head coaching position.

Especially for the Patriots. BB ain’t going no where no time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

I think you don't know anything about football if you think taking an assistant head coach job makes a black person a lock for the eventual head coaching position.

Black coaches rarely get second chances

https://www.si.com/college/hbcu/football/nfl-black-coach-no-win-situation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

I think you don't know anything about football if you think taking an assistant head coach job makes a black person a lock for the eventual head coaching position.

Nobody in that position, regardless of race, is a "lock" for eventual head coaching position. Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.

You have the causation all turned around here, which I think is why you're having trouble understanding this (unless you are deliberately misunderstanding). The Rooney Rule did not create these issues of racism in the NFL, it was the NFL's attempt to address racism in hiring practices to avoid a lawsuit like this one. What is clear from Flores' lawsuit is that the Rooney Rule is not working because teams are continuing discriminatory hiring practices despite the rule. The discrimination claims are not based on violation of the Rooney Rule itself, it is based on the actual racism going on in the hiring practices of NFL teams. These violations of the intent of the Rooney Rule are evidence of teams' discriminatory practices because it demonstrates that, even in the face of ample evidence of past discriminatory practices, teams are doubling down on those practices with full knowledge of the effects rather than trying to eliminate racism in their hiring practices.

What are the discriminatory hiring practices? What is the "actual racism?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

DP. Why do you think there are no, in your apparent opinion, “bankable” black coaches in the NFL?

I didn't say that. If there are - I'm sure they're highly desired these days. Name one with a winning record who has been denied consideration.

Brian Flores had a winning record this year and was fired

pretty sure his record was 24-25 with Miami

That's true, but it was because he took over a truly awful team and in year one went 5-11. In the last 2 years, he went 19-14.

He was fired, in large part, because he internally advocated that the QB stunk (he's right) and that they should make a change. And when the owner told him no, he was suspected of leaking potential changes to the league.

I am a little surprised he hasn't been scooped up. The lawsuit will not help his chances, of course, but he'd have been a top candidate for any coaching vacancy.

This! It all depends on the particular vacancies at the moment, but a lawsuit accusing your former owner of some really awful ethics isn't going to make him too attractive to some of the owners who might be looking for a coach.

Black men should be quiet as to not upset the powerful white men is not a great argument.

Anyone, black or white, should make sure they have a very solid legal case before filing a lawsuit accusing their employers of racial discrimination. I agree with the pp who said he probably was in line for a good job soon, but now that is in doubt. I think he acted rashly here out of anger and frustration at not being selected for the Giants job.

Before this, I'd have said that he'd become the assistant head coach of the Patriots, with an eye toward taking over as HC in a few years. Now, after making Belichick exhibit A in his discrimination lawsuit, not sure that's in the cards.

Ah, so you think the black man should have taken a demotion from head coach to assistant head coach and just be grateful anyone gave him a job at all?

You are demonstrating you know nothing about football.

I think you don't know anything about football if you think taking an assistant head coach job makes a black person a lock for the eventual head coaching position.

Who said anything about a lock? But Belichick is 70, and while he may coach for 10 more years, it's increasingly likely he won't. And by the way, the new white coach of the Raiders followed this career path - got fired after a coupel of years, went back to the patriots, and was just hired for a head coaching position. It's racism to suggest that the Flores take that same path?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.

You have the causation all turned around here, which I think is why you're having trouble understanding this (unless you are deliberately misunderstanding). The Rooney Rule did not create these issues of racism in the NFL, it was the NFL's attempt to address racism in hiring practices to avoid a lawsuit like this one. What is clear from Flores' lawsuit is that the Rooney Rule is not working because teams are continuing discriminatory hiring practices despite the rule. The discrimination claims are not based on violation of the Rooney Rule itself, it is based on the actual racism going on in the hiring practices of NFL teams. These violations of the intent of the Rooney Rule are evidence of teams' discriminatory practices because it demonstrates that, even in the face of ample evidence of past discriminatory practices, teams are doubling down on those practices with full knowledge of the effects rather than trying to eliminate racism in their hiring practices.

some good points, but it still overlooks why the Giants wanted Daboll over Flores. Are you seriously arguing it was because of race?
ll

I would recommend you read the complaint itself. The lawsuit is not just about that single incident. It provides a detailed account of the history of racism that led to the Rooney Rule, the failure of the Rooney Rule itself because of the lack of good faith compliance by teams, how the issue pervades not only head coaching positions but also coordinator and GM positions, and detailed accounts of multiple specific instances of disparate treatment in hiring involving different individuals and teams. It is a detailed and compelling read. Unless, that is, you go into it determined to reject any possibility that racism could exist in the NFL due to your own bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.

You have the causation all turned around here, which I think is why you're having trouble understanding this (unless you are deliberately misunderstanding). The Rooney Rule did not create these issues of racism in the NFL, it was the NFL's attempt to address racism in hiring practices to avoid a lawsuit like this one. What is clear from Flores' lawsuit is that the Rooney Rule is not working because teams are continuing discriminatory hiring practices despite the rule. The discrimination claims are not based on violation of the Rooney Rule itself, it is based on the actual racism going on in the hiring practices of NFL teams. These violations of the intent of the Rooney Rule are evidence of teams' discriminatory practices because it demonstrates that, even in the face of ample evidence of past discriminatory practices, teams are doubling down on those practices with full knowledge of the effects rather than trying to eliminate racism in their hiring practices.

some good points, but it still overlooks why the Giants wanted Daboll over Flores. Are you seriously arguing it was because of race?
ll

I would recommend you read the complaint itself. The lawsuit is not just about that single incident. It provides a detailed account of the history of racism that led to the Rooney Rule, the failure of the Rooney Rule itself because of the lack of good faith compliance by teams, how the issue pervades not only head coaching positions but also coordinator and GM positions, and detailed accounts of multiple specific instances of disparate treatment in hiring involving different individuals and teams. It is a detailed and compelling read. Unless, that is, you go into it determined to reject any possibility that racism could exist in the NFL due to your own bigotry.

Fair point. I haven't read it.