the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM

[Anonymous]

^^^

I'm totally retiring at 52. We've already planned it. I will teach surfing in my spare time and my spouse will tackle the left over travel on the bucket list. We are set financially and for the kids college. We will have so much fun in retirement. Why work until your too old to really physically enjoy what life has to offer. Launch the kids and off we go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever calculated how much it costs to work?

I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.

It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).

Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.

Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200


Yikes!

Why is this conversation always about whether “it makes sense” for the mom/wife to work? What about your spouse? Why not run the numbers to decide whether he should go back to work or SAH?

Because IRL and also mirrored here, the husbands do not pull their weight in taking care of the household and kids and the women take care of the vast majority of the burden. So most of them decide to stay home because they have to do 2 jobs - WOH and WAH taking care of everything, from managing appointments, to cooking, cleaning, homework, shopping etc. Add several kids or a kid with special needs and the double work becomes unbearable and sometimes impossible, if the kid with special needs requires multiple appointments. I have a unicorn - a very well paid job FH and a H who is very hands on and does things without me asking, in addition to making $$$$. I bet if other women would have more opportunities like mine and involved spouses, the selection would change. But corporate America is not kind to moms, despite all that lip service, and lots of men are too good to do homework with the kids or laundry properly or take the trash out when needed and not when asked.

Actually the last thing I would do if I had a deadbeat DH that left me with managing kids and the household along with working full time, would be to quit my job and become financially dependent on him!

I’d make sure I could always support myself in case I need to get out of a crap marriage with a freeloader. Just saying…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be honest when my wife stopped working we estimated the first 60k of income was lost due to added expenses.

But it is more than that. Once my wife stopped working I could work late, join outside professional organizations, work longer hours. Be available. Not always as not necessary. But I was not the run out the door type.

Out of all my family and cousins my brother and I have the highest HHI with SAHM wives. I no longer make big money. But I was making 400k for a 15 year run that started when my kids were 6, 4 and a new born. No way could we manage that HHI with both working with 3 kids. Childcare, maid, take out, commute would have been nightmare and neither of us would have held a high paying job.

My brother has held down a 400k to 650k job for 23 years. His. Wife quit when oldest was 1.

This was our experience too. I (DW) fought to stay in the labor market and did so for many years with 3 kids but after I quit due to a health crisis our HHI tripled with one earner. That doesn't happen to everyone but I know a number of families where the sole earner's income shot up dramatically once the juggling act ended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me part of the calculation was in opportunity costs.

I don’t view childcare while I’m working as a cost of MY job. It’s just a necessity and my partner and I both need it. What I resented was paying for childcare while I commuted, or the higher costs of house cleaning and food because my work’s hours made it hard for us to clean our own house or cook meals as often as I’d like. And then of course losing time with my child while I’m commuting made me frustrated.

I wound up leaving my WOH job when DC was a baby because those costs bothered me a lot and my employer was not interested in a PT or WFH arrangement that would have lowered those costs. I stayed home for about 6 months (on top of the mat leave I’d already taken), and then found a PT job working from home. I loved that I could just pay for childcare when I was working and when I wasn’t I could be with my kid— no commute, no work happy hours, not lunch at work, etc. And it also freed up time for taking care of the house, grocery shopping, and cooking. Plus, yes, i didn’t need to spend as much on clothes or dry cleaning or makeup because I was WFH.

Now my kid is older and I’m still WFH, though FT. I think I could go in person at this point without feeling like it was costing me so much— childcare for older kids is less expensive, it’s easier to meal prep and keep a house clean when your kids are older and don’t require such intensive care.

So I think most of these costs fall heaviest on parents (and especially moms) of very young kids. We should have more working options for women in this position to WFH and go part time, without career penalties. It’s actually pretty insane what we ask of moms when you think about it. The idea you can have a baby and be expected to operate at work as though you don’t have a tiny creature requiring around the clock care is insane.

I completely agree with this. Due to life circumstances I had my kids really close together (<18 month gap) and the three years I spent trying to hold it down at a billable hour consulting job while pregnant, with a newborn and then a newborn + toddler, constantly sick and dangerously sleep deprived, while paying $4k/mo for daycare alone... I was not okay. My PCP started prescribing me psychoactive drugs that probably weren't technically indicated, out of concern for my and my children's physical safety. If at ANY POINT anyone in the consulting firm had sat me down and said, "your job will still be here if you want to take some time off", I would have taken them up on it so fast. But I was absolutely terrified that once I got off the career ladder, the gap in the resume would lock me out of it forever. And I can't say that worry was unfounded, given all the articles coming out about the proliferation of automated resume screening software making it literally impossible for moms to get back in the workforce after taking more than 6 months away.

This is so interesting - I am at a Big 3 consulting firm and have kids 20 months apart and leaders at my firm have sat me down and literally said "what can we do to make you stay? do you want to take some time off?" There are so many models of very senior women at my firm with kids, some of who have gone PT for YEARS while being partners. Some took a full year off post each kid. My kids are 4 and 2 so I guess I'm at least 5 years behind you but it would be encouraging if in that 5 years, the tone has shifted that substantially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be honest when my wife stopped working we estimated the first 60k of income was lost due to added expenses.

But it is more than that. Once my wife stopped working I could work late, join outside professional organizations, work longer hours. Be available. Not always as not necessary. But I was not the run out the door type.

Out of all my family and cousins my brother and I have the highest HHI with SAHM wives. I no longer make big money. But I was making 400k for a 15 year run that started when my kids were 6, 4 and a new born. No way could we manage that HHI with both working with 3 kids. Childcare, maid, take out, commute would have been nightmare and neither of us would have held a high paying job.

My brother has held down a 400k to 650k job for 23 years. His. Wife quit when oldest was 1.

This was our experience too. I (DW) fought to stay in the labor market and did so for many years with 3 kids but after I quit due to a health crisis our HHI tripled with one earner. That doesn't happen to everyone but I know a number of families where the sole earner's income shot up dramatically once the juggling act ended.

Same here. I became a SAHM and my DH was able to get more professional credentials and certifications. We had always kept our COL low and we were doing a decent job of saving and investing, so with my quitting work, we were still able to accumulate wealth on one hand, but also my DH's salary went up a lot.

With the pandemic and teens and DH working from home, the household has continued to work efficiently and smoothly because I am home and not doing an office job.

[Anonymous]

Funny re the income tripling. I work for the Federal government and just today looked at what I earned when I started 23 years ago, pregnant with our first. Just did this randomly as I was thinking about retirement and couldn’t remember my start date. Was a bit less than $60k then (way less than I would have guessed) and almost $180,000 now, 3 kids later. DH during that same time period went from $200k to $700k before bonus. We absolutely had some incredibly draining times when the kids were little, but I’m thankful now that we both stuck it out.

[Anonymous]

I don’t pay for anything OP described except daycare/preschool for 2 at 3300 per month. I work remote in tech industry, so I don’t purchase special work clothes. I make way more than I pay for daycare so Obviously it would cost us a lot for me not to work.

[Anonymous]

Biggest cost by far is taxes.

Childcare for three kids costs me roughly $50k/yr. But I would say that I have to bring in close to $100k before I break even on childcare, extra commuting costs, convenience costs, and taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be honest when my wife stopped working we estimated the first 60k of income was lost due to added expenses.

But it is more than that. Once my wife stopped working I could work late, join outside professional organizations, work longer hours. Be available. Not always as not necessary. But I was not the run out the door type.

Out of all my family and cousins my brother and I have the highest HHI with SAHM wives. I no longer make big money. But I was making 400k for a 15 year run that started when my kids were 6, 4 and a new born. No way could we manage that HHI with both working with 3 kids. Childcare, maid, take out, commute would have been nightmare and neither of us would have held a high paying job.

My brother has held down a 400k to 650k job for 23 years. His. Wife quit when oldest was 1.

This was our experience too. I (DW) fought to stay in the labor market and did so for many years with 3 kids but after I quit due to a health crisis our HHI tripled with one earner. That doesn't happen to everyone but I know a number of families where the sole earner's income shot up dramatically once the juggling act ended.

Same here. I became a SAHM and my DH was able to get more professional credentials and certifications. We had always kept our COL low and we were doing a decent job of saving and investing, so with my quitting work, we were still able to accumulate wealth on one hand, but also my DH's salary went up a lot.

With the pandemic and teens and DH working from home, the household has continued to work efficiently and smoothly because I am home and not doing an office job.

I don't really see how my DHs income could.get any higher. He's a surgeon and has a private practice. I actually enjoy working because I'd be alone so much if I didn't. We do have a wonderful nanny, as I'm also in medicine though I'm a nurse anathesologist. I have a pretty consistent schedule. My kids are now older and our nanny has transitioned into housekeeping amd driving the kids around. I have to say I'm honestly glad my life isn't hers. I get the best of times and get to scrap the grunt work. I don't really see much value in doing laundry, grocery shopping, and vacuuming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be honest when my wife stopped working we estimated the first 60k of income was lost due to added expenses.

But it is more than that. Once my wife stopped working I could work late, join outside professional organizations, work longer hours. Be available. Not always as not necessary. But I was not the run out the door type.

Out of all my family and cousins my brother and I have the highest HHI with SAHM wives. I no longer make big money. But I was making 400k for a 15 year run that started when my kids were 6, 4 and a new born. No way could we manage that HHI with both working with 3 kids. Childcare, maid, take out, commute would have been nightmare and neither of us would have held a high paying job.

My brother has held down a 400k to 650k job for 23 years. His. Wife quit when oldest was 1.

This was our experience too. I (DW) fought to stay in the labor market and did so for many years with 3 kids but after I quit due to a health crisis our HHI tripled with one earner. That doesn't happen to everyone but I know a number of families where the sole earner's income shot up dramatically once the juggling act ended.

Same here. I became a SAHM and my DH was able to get more professional credentials and certifications. We had always kept our COL low and we were doing a decent job of saving and investing, so with my quitting work, we were still able to accumulate wealth on one hand, but also my DH's salary went up a lot.

With the pandemic and teens and DH working from home, the household has continued to work efficiently and smoothly because I am home and not doing an office job.

I don't really see how my DHs income could.get any higher. He's a surgeon and has a private practice. I actually enjoy working because I'd be alone so much if I didn't. We do have a wonderful nanny, as I'm also in medicine though I'm a nurse anathesologist. I have a pretty consistent schedule. My kids are now older and our nanny has transitioned into housekeeping amd driving the kids around. I have to say I'm honestly glad my life isn't hers. I get the best of times and get to scrap the grunt work. I don't really see much value in doing laundry, grocery shopping, and vacuuming.

NP here - this is basically me. I'd rather stay in 3-hour meetings or write code / reports than clean up toilets or mop. Even if we'd keep our weekly cleaning service, I know I'd be expected to pull more in terms of organizing and planning the household, and to me, it's already mind-numbing enough as it is. So, to me, WOH is much much more enjoyable than SAH. After working my a** off at MIT for 2 years to get a MSci, I can't imagine the highlight of my day being washing my H's boxer briefs.

[Anonymous]

Daycare - $600 for after care
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $50 but if I SAH, I'd be out of the house constantly. I'd be spending that much on shopping, seeing friends, volunteering, picking up/dropping off kids, running errands, etc. - my commute is 10 miles.
Parking - $0 - my employer pays for parking, so weird that yours doesn't
Cleaning Services - $0 - Every SAHM I know has a cleaning lady, so there is no difference her
Clothing - $0 I would just spend more on casual stuff. I buy very little casual clothes now and I rarely buy new work clothes, especially the past two years when I'm only in the office 2 days a week
Dry Cleaning - $10 You spend 100 a month on dry cleaning? Find a cheaper dry cleaner, crazy!
Lunches - $0 - I pack lunch most days and my SAHM friends go out to lunch/get takeout a LOT
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $0 - I don't buy coffee or breakfast at work. I'd probably spend more money on this if I SAH
Takeout - $0 - You think SAHMs don't order takeout just as much as you do? Girl please.

[Anonymous]

DH and I WFH, the only thing we pay for that we wouldn't pay for if we worked is after care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I WFH, the only thing we pay for that we wouldn't pay for if we worked is after care.

I mean if we didn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biggest cost by far is taxes.

Childcare for three kids costs me roughly $50k/yr. But I would say that I have to bring in close to $100k before I break even on childcare, extra commuting costs, convenience costs, and taxes.

Ooooooookay crazy lady who doesn't understand taxation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be honest when my wife stopped working we estimated the first 60k of income was lost due to added expenses.

But it is more than that. Once my wife stopped working I could work late, join outside professional organizations, work longer hours. Be available. Not always as not necessary. But I was not the run out the door type.

Out of all my family and cousins my brother and I have the highest HHI with SAHM wives. I no longer make big money. But I was making 400k for a 15 year run that started when my kids were 6, 4 and a new born. No way could we manage that HHI with both working with 3 kids. Childcare, maid, take out, commute would have been nightmare and neither of us would have held a high paying job.

My brother has held down a 400k to 650k job for 23 years. His. Wife quit when oldest was 1.

This was our experience too. I (DW) fought to stay in the labor market and did so for many years with 3 kids but after I quit due to a health crisis our HHI tripled with one earner. That doesn't happen to everyone but I know a number of families where the sole earner's income shot up dramatically once the juggling act ended.

Same here. I became a SAHM and my DH was able to get more professional credentials and certifications. We had always kept our COL low and we were doing a decent job of saving and investing, so with my quitting work, we were still able to accumulate wealth on one hand, but also my DH's salary went up a lot.

With the pandemic and teens and DH working from home, the household has continued to work efficiently and smoothly because I am home and not doing an office job.

I don't really see how my DHs income could.get any higher. He's a surgeon and has a private practice. I actually enjoy working because I'd be alone so much if I didn't. We do have a wonderful nanny, as I'm also in medicine though I'm a nurse anathesologist. I have a pretty consistent schedule. My kids are now older and our nanny has transitioned into housekeeping amd driving the kids around. I have to say I'm honestly glad my life isn't hers. I get the best of times and get to scrap the grunt work. I don't really see much value in doing laundry, grocery shopping, and vacuuming.

I actually agree with you on not doing the grunt work. I have always employed domestic help at home, even as our COL was low. I became a SAHM to concentrate on my kids and to spend time with them. The only job I did not outsource is that of parenting. I could not bear having someone else provide childcare for them. My DH has a fairly cushy and low stress job, so I have enough time in the day to spend with him and we both can do our own stuff together now as the kids have become older.