Anyone’s child considering university in England?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

Pretty simple, UK schools are not target schools for US-based companies/US offices, like consulting, tech, or investment banking. It's much easier to get a job in the US out of an ivy than Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL or they call "G5" schools especially out of college.

You also see much fewer Oxbridge applicants to top schools like YLS, HBS, etc. Just take a look at their undergrad enrollment data from another thread. Since you put Columbia on the same tier as Oxbridge, it still sends far more people to Yale/Stanford Law, HBS, Stanford GSB than all of Oxbridge combined. They are not known for their professional schools. Even schools at a lower tier like Brown and Dartmouth sent more people into elite US grad schools.

Unless your kids want to work in the UK, then she can apply to their London offices. But salaries will be likely lower than in the US and there's this whole hassle with visa issues.

Also, American universities don't value an UK PhD as much as an US PhD now. You can't get a teaching job just about anywhere in the US with a PhD from the UK.

My spouse has a UK phD and teaching at med school. Good friend also UK PhD, very high at NIH. I won't argue that institutions may value a US PhD more, but the last part of that statement is certainly not true. Also, this thread is about undergrad.

The reason that the US PhD is considered more valuable is because it includes pedagogy. Oxbridge doesn't teach that. You write your thesis and you are done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

Pretty simple, UK schools are not target schools for US-based companies/US offices, like consulting, tech, or investment banking. It's much easier to get a job in the US out of an ivy than Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL or they call "G5" schools especially out of college.

You also see much fewer Oxbridge applicants to top schools like YLS, HBS, etc. Just take a look at their undergrad enrollment data from another thread. Since you put Columbia on the same tier as Oxbridge, it still sends far more people to Yale/Stanford Law, HBS, Stanford GSB than all of Oxbridge combined. They are not known for their professional schools. Even schools at a lower tier like Brown and Dartmouth sent more people into elite US grad schools.

Unless your kids want to work in the UK, then she can apply to their London offices. But salaries will be likely lower than in the US and there's this whole hassle with visa issues.

Also, American universities don't value an UK PhD as much as an US PhD now. You can't get a teaching job just about anywhere in the US with a PhD from the UK.

I disagree with this. HLS was loaded with MPhils, Rhodes and Marshall scholars when I went there. And I recently read a list about this fall's class and it too was populated with lots of Oxbridge types. However, most are coming in having more than 2 years off after college. It may be that the undergrads don't populate the American law schools, but a lot of American and British MPhils and other Scholars do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG I am bumping this because trolls hijacked this- My son wants to study in the UK and I would like to hear from people who actually have kids studying there not hear why it sucks.

Let’s try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the average middle class American (read: not transnationals/dual citizens/border hoppers like yourself), getting a degree from Durham or Bristol or Southampton is just about as good as getting a degree from a community college.

Firstly durham>bristol>>>>>southampton.
And I'm sorry but what random basic american is considering a degree at any of these places? The crowd thats exploring options in Europe and the UK is either 1) the international crowd or 2) the more independent, curious go-getter who wants a more unique, international career, for which going to university in the UK might help. It's not the kid who wants a random corporate suburban office park job and to live in the suburbs.

Stop kidding yourself. The Americans I know who have all left the country to pursue university in the UK are lackluster, and made that decision because they knew they couldn’t get into the top universities in America (or had already been rejected). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but erudite jet set they weren’t.

Many are going because the European schools are cheaper than going in-state at the state flagship. Some state flagships cost about $40,000 per year, for in-state attendance, once you factor in incidental costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG I am bumping this because trolls hijacked this- My son wants to study in the UK and I would like to hear from people who actually have kids studying there not hear why it sucks.

I went to University in England (I was born there). You are completely treated like a fully responsible adult from the first day. There are no house parents, there are no older students to guide you. You are literally on your own. And you have to remember to hand stuff in - no one will tell you if work is missing, they'll just fail you.

any other questions?

I know a kid who’s starting there and I think he’s getting a lot gentler experience than that.

My son is in the Netherlands, and his university has a long introductory program this year.

Programs that take in a lot of international kids now may have discovered a little orientating maximizes tuition stream retention.

[Anonymous]

But Oxford has minimums, like at 1470 SAT. and for grad work a 3.7 GPA on a 4.0 scale.

Does Oxford University require SAT?
Oxford needs a minimum SAT of 1470. That won’t get you in on its own, but without that, you cannot apply. If you want the full list of minimum requirements for US applicants, here it is SATs: students sitting this qualification will need to obtain a total score of 1,470 (out of 1,600).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thus is all great advice. Regarding the needs, I would start w/ the bank account. The student affiliation should be enough to set that up (or at least it was in my day, albeit pre-cell phones)! Though maybe my ISIC card helped me. Not sure if they still do that, but if so, that can be obtained in the US before going abroad.

My son’s in Leiden. He was able to get an account with an online bank that just doesn’t feel very sturdy in a couple of weeks, but getting a student account at a real bank took about two months. And my son is great at dealing with bureaucracy. This was about Covid slowing everything down, not my son

[Anonymous]

she considered it but that would put her in a difficult position for applying to med school (she'll probably study abroad somewhere in the UK)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to hear others’ experience of child going across the pond.

I think a lot of people who send their kids for a bachelor's in the UK have relatives in the UK.

I know people who have sons and daughters who've just started there. I don't have any reports yet on how hard or easy the classes are.

If you don't have relatives there, and you haven't lived there, I think it would be helpful to work with some kind of agency or consulting firm that understood the process, because different countries' college application processes are amazingly different complicated.

The deal with the UK is:

- UK universities often want to see certain types of AP scores, to verify that you have what they think is the equivalent of a good UK high school diploma. If students take the AP tests in the spring of their senior year, the universities will give them provisional admission. Having a provisional status is really stressful. In my opinion, applying to a UK university is great if the student will have the AP test scores required by, say, March or April. Applying to a non-U.S. university that wants AP results is pretty awful if the AP scores are likely to arrive after June. The student may have to set up a whole life in a strange new place... at the very last minute.

- Many UK universities have plenty of dorm space for international students. That's a wonderful thing.

- Most UK universities other than Oxford and Cambridge tap into a fairly simple, straightforward UCAS application process. It's really wonderful, and we here in the United States should be begging the UCAS people to take over the U.S. college and university application process.

- A student who ends up in the UK will need: a UK mobile phone; a UK (or UK-compatible) bank account; and a UK ID. The problem with all of this is that a student might get into a chicken-or-egg situation, where a student needs a UK bank account to get the cell phone, a UK cell phone to get the identity papers, and maybe both UK ID and a cell phone to get the bank account. A great applicant probably doesn't need any kind of consultant to help with the UCAS process, but a student might appreciate the help of a consultant who can help the student get through the phone/bank/ID maze.

- Costs at a typical UK university for a U.S. resident are comparable to the cost of going to some place like the University of Wisconsin out-of-state. Students there can probably get merit aid and student loans of some kinds but may not get the same kind of need-based aid they'd get in the United States. So, UK schools may be better for donut hole families that think paying $40,000 or $50,000 per year is a lot better than paying $75,000 per year for Vassar. Students with less cash may be able to make the math work, too, but they might have harder time.

- The big question is: How will U.S. grad schools really react to applicants with bachelor's degrees from non-U.S. universities and U.S. passports? It's hard to figure that out, because most websites talking about grad school admissions assume that applicants from non-U.S. universities will have language and visa problems. The idea of U.S. citizens coming back to the U.S. with bachelor's degrees from universities in the UK seems to be pretty new.

And the prevailing thought (supported by anecdata) is that American kids who choose to forego U.S. universities to skip on over to the pond do so because they couldn't get into or make it at a comparably elite institution stateside. Think of kids like Caroline Calloway who, after she couldn't cut it at NYU, transferred to Cambridge. More practically speaking, of course U.S. grads would have a leg up over non-U.S. grads if they're gunning for U.S.-based positions.

If you're committed to sending your kid to the UK for college, their best bet is to probably settle down or set up their career over there. They may very well end up wanting to stay there, regardless.

Nonsense. DH and I both graduated from Edinburgh and I went to Harvard Med and he to Harvard Law. We have lots of American friends seeking to send their kids to UK or Irish universities for the experience as well as the high level of classic education.

Sure, sure.

DH went to Edinburgh, Leicester for PhD and Fordham for Law. I realize it's not Harvard, but he's done quite well. In terms of prestige, as it was explained to me it goes:

Oxford and Cambridge
Edinburgh - Durham
St Andrews
etc.

Although that also depends on majors.

DH was waitlisted at Cambridge. His sister got in.

This does not happen. Maybe it is a story your DH tells, to lessen the blow to his ego. They offer places a) unconditionally - i.e. you just get in no matter what your grades, or b) conditionally - dependent on certain grades - or c) they don't offer you a place at all.

So maybe he was offered a place and failed to get in. Most likely he wasn't offered a place. They do not hold "waitlists"

[Anonymous]

Yeah, was just about to post this!

[Anonymous]

Perhaps she means pooled and not offered a place. Most people here don't understand the pooling system but do understand what "waitlist" means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG I am bumping this because trolls hijacked this- My son wants to study in the UK and I would like to hear from people who actually have kids studying there not hear why it sucks.

OP, obviously most of the responses aren’t very useful to you. There are plenty of kids who complete the IB program at WIS, BIS and BCC who attend British universities. You might try to figure out how to get in contact. Perhaps through a parents association? Also, there’s a huge contingent of American students at St Andrew’s. You may already be aware that the Scottish undergrad degree is more similar to that in the US than the those in England and Wales which require earlier specialisation and are typically shorter. Perhaps you can find an online forum for parents.

[Anonymous]

St. Andrews and Trinity Dublin are also popular among American High School students interested in studying abroad for four years because you can use the Common App to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps she means pooled and not offered a place. Most people here don't understand the pooling system but do understand what "waitlist" means.

What do you mean, pooled? He was either offered a place or he wasn't. It's quite cut and dry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps she means pooled and not offered a place. Most people here don't understand the pooling system but do understand what "waitlist" means.

What do you mean, pooled? He was either offered a place or he wasn't. It's quite cut and dry.

Exactly what I meant. Most people here don't understand pooling, adjustment and/or clearing. Agree, there is no waitlist but there are also other options to offer or no offer.