Anyone’s child considering university in England?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

The U.S. economy is significantly more robust than the UK's. The United States is not at any reasonable possibility of dissolving. Scottish independence is quite literally a very real possibility in the next couple of years. I won't even get into Brexit. Growing xenophobia? I don't think you've ever been to the UK if you think Americans are xenophobic.

January 6 insurrection, election nullification, racial animus and global warming disasters = American paradise, right? PLUS getting shot at the movies OR school - you pick. But the economy IS a bright spot.Kids can get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

The U.S. economy is significantly more robust than the UK's. The United States is not at any reasonable possibility of dissolving. Scottish independence is quite literally a very real possibility in the next couple of years. I won't even get into Brexit. Growing xenophobia? I don't think you've ever been to the UK if you think Americans are xenophobic.

January 6 insurrection, election nullification, racial animus and global warming disasters = American paradise, right? PLUS getting shot at the movies OR school - you pick. But the economy IS a bright spot.Kids can get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries

Racial animosity (not "animus") and global warming are not things that only affect America, not by a long shot, and are very real issues for the UK as well. I also never stated America was a paradise, so stop with your patronizing hyperbole. Kids can indeed get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries, but its foolhardy and arrogant to believe that your kid who decides to flounce over to the UK for college should have the same advantages in the U.S. job market (or even more advantages) than an equally smart and accomplished kid who graduates from an American institution. The truth is an American kid with a UK degree will have significantly less social capital and fewer networking opportunities.

If you just want to feel posh and aesthetic and try out the European thing for a bit, just do study abroad for a term or two. I'm serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

The U.S. economy is significantly more robust than the UK's. The United States is not at any reasonable possibility of dissolving. Scottish independence is quite literally a very real possibility in the next couple of years. I won't even get into Brexit. Growing xenophobia? I don't think you've ever been to the UK if you think Americans are xenophobic.

January 6 insurrection, election nullification, racial animus and global warming disasters = American paradise, right? PLUS getting shot at the movies OR school - you pick. But the economy IS a bright spot.Kids can get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries [/quo
Racial animosity (not "animus") and global warming are not things that only affect America, not by a long shot, and are very real issues for the UK as well. I also never stated America was a paradise, so stop with your patronizing hyperbole. Kids can indeed get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries, but its foolhardy and arrogant to believe that your kid who decides to flounce over to the UK for college should have the same advantages in the U.S. job market (or even more advantages) than an equally smart and accomplished kid who graduates from an American institution. The truth is an American kid with a UK degree will have significantly less social capital and fewer networking opportunities.

If you just want to feel posh and aesthetic and try out the European thing for a bit, just do study abroad for a term or two. I'm serious.

You called people who were talking about sending their kids to UK schools "bootlickers." What did the queen do to you? Why on earth would you think that people who study internationally should be penalized for it in the job market? That makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

The U.S. economy is significantly more robust than the UK's. The United States is not at any reasonable possibility of dissolving. Scottish independence is quite literally a very real possibility in the next couple of years. I won't even get into Brexit. Growing xenophobia? I don't think you've ever been to the UK if you think Americans are xenophobic.

DS college built a new London Centre campus in 2018. He's only a freshman, but it's one of the reasons why he chose the school. What's the best year/semester for study abroad?

January 6 insurrection, election nullification, racial animus and global warming disasters = American paradise, right? PLUS getting shot at the movies OR school - you pick. But the economy IS a bright spot.Kids can get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries

Racial animosity (not "animus") and global warming are not things that only affect America, not by a long shot, and are very real issues for the UK as well. I also never stated America was a paradise, so stop with your patronizing hyperbole. Kids can indeed get a great education in a wide variety of settings and countries, but its foolhardy and arrogant to believe that your kid who decides to flounce over to the UK for college should have the same advantages in the U.S. job market (or even more advantages) than an equally smart and accomplished kid who graduates from an American institution. The truth is an American kid with a UK degree will have significantly less social capital and fewer networking opportunities.

If you just want to feel posh and aesthetic and try out the European thing for a bit, just do study abroad for a term or two. I'm serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

Well given that Oxford was founded in 1096 and Cambridge was founded in 1209 I think they've probably lived through worse and survived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is applying to Imperial, CS (they call it “computing”). Their BS degree takes 3 years to obtain, and masters takes 4 years. I don’t quite want her to move overseas and hope she’ll get accepted by a top college in the US and will stay here.

Your DD is smart enough to have chosen very well and I wish her the best of luck. Imperial is a fantastic place for her field of study. I'm serious. I know you don't want her to be so far from home, but at least she would be in an excellent program. -- Spouse of an Imperial alum (both undergrad and Ph.D)

And by the way, don't listen to the ignorant nonsense on this thread from some PPs (I suspect only one or two, who post repeatedly) about how no one can get a good job here in the U.S. with a UK degree. That's complete and utter hogwash. Both my spouse and I have UK degrees and they were always the first thing employers wanted to discuss, and drew a lot of enthusiasm and attention. (Yes, UK-degree-hating PPs, it was all good attention.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

Pretty simple, UK schools are not target schools for US-based companies/US offices, like consulting, tech, or investment banking. It's much easier to get a job in the US out of an ivy than Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL or they call "G5" schools especially out of college.

You also see much fewer Oxbridge applicants to top schools like YLS, HBS, etc. Just take a look at their undergrad enrollment data from another thread. Since you put Columbia on the same tier as Oxbridge, it still sends far more people to Yale/Stanford Law, HBS, Stanford GSB than all of Oxbridge combined. They are not known for their professional schools. Even schools at a lower tier like Brown and Dartmouth sent more people into elite US grad schools.

Unless your kids want to work in the UK, then she can apply to their London offices. But salaries will be likely lower than in the US and there's this whole hassle with visa issues.

Also, American universities don't value an UK PhD as much as an US PhD now. You can't get a teaching job just about anywhere in the US with a PhD from the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only went for a year (study abroad) but enrolled as a regular student rather than in the international student program.

I loved it and have many good memories ... but I was a college junior and I knew how to "do" school. I am not sure I would recommend it for a freshman. Among other things, UK students specialize early. I lacked their deep knowledge in a subject (even as a junior) but made up for it in interdisciplinary and study/writing skills that they lacked. A U.S. freshman may find that she has neither.

This is highly doubtful, unless you went to a very low ranking UK college.

NP here. I actually did this at Oxford. A known middleman brokered it essentially.

Mine is applying for Cambridge right now.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ PP again. Mine is applying for UG, not a year abroad. Also is a dual citizen w/ a Cambridge grad in the family to offer advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

Pretty simple, UK schools are not target schools for US-based companies/US offices, like consulting, tech, or investment banking. It's much easier to get a job in the US out of an ivy than Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL or they call "G5" schools especially out of college.

You also see much fewer Oxbridge applicants to top schools like YLS, HBS, etc. Just take a look at their undergrad enrollment data from another thread. Since you put Columbia on the same tier as Oxbridge, it still sends far more people to Yale/Stanford Law, HBS, Stanford GSB than all of Oxbridge combined. They are not known for their professional schools. Even schools at a lower tier like Brown and Dartmouth sent more people into elite US grad schools.

Unless your kids want to work in the UK, then she can apply to their London offices. But salaries will be likely lower than in the US and there's this whole hassle with visa issues.

Also, American universities don't value an UK PhD as much as an US PhD now. You can't get a teaching job just about anywhere in the US with a PhD from the UK.

My spouse has a UK phD and teaching at med school. Good friend also UK PhD, very high at NIH. I won't argue that institutions may value a US PhD more, but the last part of that statement is certainly not true. Also, this thread is about undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to hear others’ experience of child going across the pond.

I think a lot of people who send their kids for a bachelor's in the UK have relatives in the UK.

I know people who have sons and daughters who've just started there. I don't have any reports yet on how hard or easy the classes are.

If you don't have relatives there, and you haven't lived there, I think it would be helpful to work with some kind of agency or consulting firm that understood the process, because different countries' college application processes are amazingly different complicated.

The deal with the UK is:

- UK universities often want to see certain types of AP scores, to verify that you have what they think is the equivalent of a good UK high school diploma. If students take the AP tests in the spring of their senior year, the universities will give them provisional admission. Having a provisional status is really stressful. In my opinion, applying to a UK university is great if the student will have the AP test scores required by, say, March or April. Applying to a non-U.S. university that wants AP results is pretty awful if the AP scores are likely to arrive after June. The student may have to set up a whole life in a strange new place... at the very last minute.

- Many UK universities have plenty of dorm space for international students. That's a wonderful thing.

- Most UK universities other than Oxford and Cambridge tap into a fairly simple, straightforward UCAS application process. It's really wonderful, and we here in the United States should be begging the UCAS people to take over the U.S. college and university application process.

- A student who ends up in the UK will need: a UK mobile phone; a UK (or UK-compatible) bank account; and a UK ID. The problem with all of this is that a student might get into a chicken-or-egg situation, where a student needs a UK bank account to get the cell phone, a UK cell phone to get the identity papers, and maybe both UK ID and a cell phone to get the bank account. A great applicant probably doesn't need any kind of consultant to help with the UCAS process, but a student might appreciate the help of a consultant who can help the student get through the phone/bank/ID maze.

- Costs at a typical UK university for a U.S. resident are comparable to the cost of going to some place like the University of Wisconsin out-of-state. Students there can probably get merit aid and student loans of some kinds but may not get the same kind of need-based aid they'd get in the United States. So, UK schools may be better for donut hole families that think paying $40,000 or $50,000 per year is a lot better than paying $75,000 per year for Vassar. Students with less cash may be able to make the math work, too, but they might have harder time.

- The big question is: How will U.S. grad schools really react to applicants with bachelor's degrees from non-U.S. universities and U.S. passports? It's hard to figure that out, because most websites talking about grad school admissions assume that applicants from non-U.S. universities will have language and visa problems. The idea of U.S. citizens coming back to the U.S. with bachelor's degrees from universities in the UK seems to be pretty new.

Thus is all great advice. Regarding the needs, I would start w/ the bank account. The student affiliation should be enough to set that up (or at least it was in my day, albeit pre-cell phones)! Though maybe my ISIC card helped me. Not sure if they still do that, but if so, that can be obtained in the US before going abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But the opposite is also true. I am from Eastern Europe. A vast majority of Harvard kids would not be able to pass entrance exams at any of the schools. They simply do not have the level of knowledge required for entry (and study). If they studied for months, sure, but as they are right now - no way.

You need to understand that expectations from incoming freshmen are entirely different. Nobody cares about your sports or the non profit you started. Even your gold medal at a math Olympiad will not get you a place at an engineering school much less anywhere else. You think your fencing class presidents are so impressive, fine, but that doesn’t translate abroad as much as you think it does.

This is exactly correct. In Europe they care about your intellectual ability. In the US it is all about sport, diversity, and money. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I went to Cambridge, and while I love the US, I wouldn’t let my dog go to undergrad here. It is a joke. Graduate school is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

New poster. Please provide your evidence for the statement in bold above. Actual evidence, not just your personal assumptions. We'll wait....

Pretty simple, UK schools are not target schools for US-based companies/US offices, like consulting, tech, or investment banking. It's much easier to get a job in the US out of an ivy than Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL or they call "G5" schools especially out of college.

You also see much fewer Oxbridge applicants to top schools like YLS, HBS, etc. Just take a look at their undergrad enrollment data from another thread. Since you put Columbia on the same tier as Oxbridge, it still sends far more people to Yale/Stanford Law, HBS, Stanford GSB than all of Oxbridge combined. They are not known for their professional schools. Even schools at a lower tier like Brown and Dartmouth sent more people into elite US grad schools.

Unless your kids want to work in the UK, then she can apply to their London offices. But salaries will be likely lower than in the US and there's this whole hassle with visa issues.

Also, American universities don't value an UK PhD as much as an US PhD now. You can't get a teaching job just about anywhere in the US with a PhD from the UK.

My spouse has a UK phD and teaching at med school. Good friend also UK PhD, very high at NIH. I won't argue that institutions may value a US PhD more, but the last part of that statement is certainly not true. Also, this thread is about undergrad.

In social sciences, that is true. DS is doing his PhD now and was dissuaded to go to Oxford by his professors. I am not familiar with the field of medical sciences. UK PhDs are viewed less favorably because they are a lot shorter, and therefore the candidates have less research experience, fewer publications, etc.