Anyone’s child considering university in England?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say that most Ivies, Stanford, and MIT would come out top in a hypothetical cross-admit battle with Oxbridge. DS went to Columbia for undergrad and his international friends say that Oxbridge is seen as slightly less prestigious because they are "easier to get into" as opposed to the ivies. They also admit more students per class because of the college system. In general, it's much harder to get accepted as an international student at ivies than at Oxbridge, because applications are not nearly as "holistic". With an undergraduate population of around 12k, they are about the size of Cornell/Penn.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say that most Ivies, Stanford, and MIT would come out top in a hypothetical cross-admit battle with Oxbridge. DS went to Columbia for undergrad and his international friends say that Oxbridge is seen as slightly less prestigious because they are "easier to get into" as opposed to the ivies. They also admit more students per class because of the college system. In general, it's much harder to get accepted as an international student at ivies than at Oxbridge, because applications are not nearly as "holistic". With an undergraduate population of around 12k, they are about the size of Cornell/Penn.

Not to mention underpaid and overworked faculty members going on strike at Oxbridge -

https://cherwell.org/2020/02/04/oxford-will-be-hit-with-14-more-days-of-strike-action/

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/18640

Daughter did her MPhil at Oxford. Spent half of year 1 without classes because of strike+covid and year 2 in practical isolation. Money not well spent.

[Anonymous]

It’s much harder to get a job in the US if your kid wants to pursue a degree in the UK and wishes to come back to work. Let’s put it that way. If they are of Ivy League caliber, send them to the ivies and not Oxbridge. It will make their life post-graduation much easier.

Grad school is still worth trying out though, if they just want the Oxbridge experience and aren’t really worried about immediate employment or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the average middle class American (read: not transnationals/dual citizens/border hoppers like yourself), getting a degree from Durham or Bristol or Southampton is just about as good as getting a degree from a community college.

Firstly durham>bristol>>>>>southampton.
And I'm sorry but what random basic american is considering a degree at any of these places? The crowd thats exploring options in Europe and the UK is either 1) the international crowd or 2) the more independent, curious go-getter who wants a more unique, international career, for which going to university in the UK might help. It's not the kid who wants a random corporate suburban office park job and to live in the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the average middle class American (read: not transnationals/dual citizens/border hoppers like yourself), getting a degree from Durham or Bristol or Southampton is just about as good as getting a degree from a community college.

Firstly durham>bristol>>>>>southampton.
And I'm sorry but what random basic american is considering a degree at any of these places? The crowd thats exploring options in Europe and the UK is either 1) the international crowd or 2) the more independent, curious go-getter who wants a more unique, international career, for which going to university in the UK might help. It's not the kid who wants a random corporate suburban office park job and to live in the suburbs.

Stop kidding yourself. The Americans I know who have all left the country to pursue university in the UK are lackluster, and made that decision because they knew they couldn’t get into the top universities in America (or had already been rejected). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but erudite jet set they weren’t.

[Anonymous]

HYPSM

Oxbridge = Columbia/Caltech

Imperial = Penn/Duke/Northwestern/Chicago

UCL/LSE = Cornell/Hopkins/Brown/Dartmouth/UCLA/Berkeley

KCL/Edinburgh/Durham = Rice/WashU/Emory/UMich/Georgetown

St Andrews = UVA/CMU/NYU/Tufts

Rest of the Russell Group = Other state flagships

This is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the average middle class American (read: not transnationals/dual citizens/border hoppers like yourself), getting a degree from Durham or Bristol or Southampton is just about as good as getting a degree from a community college.

Firstly durham>bristol>>>>>southampton.
And I'm sorry but what random basic american is considering a degree at any of these places? The crowd thats exploring options in Europe and the UK is either 1) the international crowd or 2) the more independent, curious go-getter who wants a more unique, international career, for which going to university in the UK might help. It's not the kid who wants a random corporate suburban office park job and to live in the suburbs.

Stop kidding yourself. The Americans I know who have all left the country to pursue university in the UK are lackluster, and made that decision because they knew they couldn’t get into the top universities in America (or had already been rejected). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but erudite jet set they weren’t.

I don't know. There were two girls in my DC's graduating class who turned down Ivy admits for Cambridge. People select colleges for a wide variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the opposite is also true. I am from Eastern Europe. A vast majority of Harvard kids would not be able to pass entrance exams at any of the schools. They simply do not have the level of knowledge required for entry (and study). If they studied for months, sure, but as they are right now - no way.

You need to understand that expectations from incoming freshmen are entirely different. Nobody cares about your sports or the non profit you started. Even your gold medal at a math Olympiad will not get you a place at an engineering school much less anywhere else. You think your fencing class presidents are so impressive, fine, but that doesn’t translate abroad as much as you think it does.

This is patently false, and sounds like European propaganda a la "Americans are dumb".

No just poorly educated.

[Anonymous]

DD is applying to Imperial, CS (they call it “computing”). Their BS degree takes 3 years to obtain, and masters takes 4 years. I don’t quite want her to move overseas and hope she’ll get accepted by a top college in the US and will stay here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the opposite is also true. I am from Eastern Europe. A vast majority of Harvard kids would not be able to pass entrance exams at any of the schools. They simply do not have the level of knowledge required for entry (and study). If they studied for months, sure, but as they are right now - no way.

You need to understand that expectations from incoming freshmen are entirely different. Nobody cares about your sports or the non profit you started. Even your gold medal at a math Olympiad will not get you a place at an engineering school much less anywhere else. You think your fencing class presidents are so impressive, fine, but that doesn’t translate abroad as much as you think it does.

This is patently false, and sounds like European propaganda a la "Americans are dumb".

Well unfortunately the UK admissions folks all believe it. I studied Art History for A level in the UK (amongst others) and knew more about it than a friend in the US who was studying it as a major at a State University. I was astonished.

From upthread:

"As someone who lived in the Uk for four years with a spouse who taught A levels and supported the application process for the kids applying uni….. I can say with 100% certainty that this comparison is complete hogwash. I personally KNOW kids heading to KCL and only when pigs fly would they ever have had a chance at Cornell Berkeley Dartmouth UCLA. They were B+ students at best. I know kids going to Oxbridge and while they were incredibly hard workers they were by no means as impressive as some of the students I know at Princeton for example. And No One from the international school applied to St Andrew’s… Bath Warwick Edinborough and Durham but St. Andrews? It is a joke."

So, competing anecdotes. Across almost all criteria, elite American universities are harder to gain entry into than elite UK universities.

No. Because in the UK you need approval from your school before applying. No one gets to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge without the express approval of their schools. They just cannot do it, so it is a self-selecting group, and the "acceptance rates" just are not comparable to US colleges. If you only have the top 1% of students applying and 54% of those are accepted, it is apples to oranges when in the US literally ANYONE can apply to an ivy and 3-7% are accepted. IT is a huge pool in comparison.

NP. THIS. Plus you have to pick between Oxford and Cambridge.

[Anonymous]

Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the opposite is also true. I am from Eastern Europe. A vast majority of Harvard kids would not be able to pass entrance exams at any of the schools. They simply do not have the level of knowledge required for entry (and study). If they studied for months, sure, but as they are right now - no way.

You need to understand that expectations from incoming freshmen are entirely different. Nobody cares about your sports or the non profit you started. Even your gold medal at a math Olympiad will not get you a place at an engineering school much less anywhere else. You think your fencing class presidents are so impressive, fine, but that doesn’t translate abroad as much as you think it does.

This is patently false, and sounds like European propaganda a la "Americans are dumb".

Well unfortunately the UK admissions folks all believe it. I studied Art History for A level in the UK (amongst others) and knew more about it than a friend in the US who was studying it as a major at a State University. I was astonished.

From upthread:

"As someone who lived in the Uk for four years with a spouse who taught A levels and supported the application process for the kids applying uni….. I can say with 100% certainty that this comparison is complete hogwash. I personally KNOW kids heading to KCL and only when pigs fly would they ever have had a chance at Cornell Berkeley Dartmouth UCLA. They were B+ students at best. I know kids going to Oxbridge and while they were incredibly hard workers they were by no means as impressive as some of the students I know at Princeton for example. And No One from the international school applied to St Andrew’s… Bath Warwick Edinborough and Durham but St. Andrews? It is a joke."

So, competing anecdotes. Across almost all criteria, elite American universities are harder to gain entry into than elite UK universities.

No. Because in the UK you need approval from your school before applying. No one gets to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge without the express approval of their schools. They just cannot do it, so it is a self-selecting group, and the "acceptance rates" just are not comparable to US colleges. If you only have the top 1% of students applying and 54% of those are accepted, it is apples to oranges when in the US literally ANYONE can apply to an ivy and 3-7% are accepted. IT is a huge pool in comparison.

NP. THIS. Plus you have to pick between Oxford and Cambridge.

Also, you can only apply to five schools so there are fewer YOLO applications to long shots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, this.
Oddly enough, I was just thinking about that possibility in the middle of purchasing "No Time to Die" tickets. Well, the sun is setting on the James Bond empire now, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many Brit bootlickers in here? That country is on a swift path to irrelevance. Economy tanking, brink of the Union dissolving, Brexit, growing xenophobia... like, why?

LOL as if the US doesn't have a problem with most of those things... PLUS the possibility of getting mowed down by a machine-gun wielding psycho at the movie theater.

The U.S. economy is significantly more robust than the UK's. The United States is not at any reasonable possibility of dissolving. Scottish independence is quite literally a very real possibility in the next couple of years. I won't even get into Brexit. Growing xenophobia? I don't think you've ever been to the UK if you think Americans are xenophobic.