Anyone’s child considering university in England?

[Anonymous]

This has come up before. Roughly speaking, in terms of prestige equivalencies:

Oxbridge <= HYPSM

Imperial = Columbia/Caltech

UCL/LSE = Penn/Duke/Northwestern/Chicago

KCL/Edinburgh/Durham = Cornell/Hopkins/Brown/Dartmouth/UCLA/Berkeley

St Andrews = Rice/WashU/Emory/UMich/Georgetown

Rest of the Russell Group = UVA/CMU/NYU/Tufts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to hear others’ experience of child going across the pond.

I think a lot of people who send their kids for a bachelor's in the UK have relatives in the UK.

I know people who have sons and daughters who've just started there. I don't have any reports yet on how hard or easy the classes are.

If you don't have relatives there, and you haven't lived there, I think it would be helpful to work with some kind of agency or consulting firm that understood the process, because different countries' college application processes are amazingly different complicated.

The deal with the UK is:

- UK universities often want to see certain types of AP scores, to verify that you have what they think is the equivalent of a good UK high school diploma. If students take the AP tests in the spring of their senior year, the universities will give them provisional admission. Having a provisional status is really stressful. In my opinion, applying to a UK university is great if the student will have the AP test scores required by, say, March or April. Applying to a non-U.S. university that wants AP results is pretty awful if the AP scores are likely to arrive after June. The student may have to set up a whole life in a strange new place... at the very last minute.

- Many UK universities have plenty of dorm space for international students. That's a wonderful thing.

- Most UK universities other than Oxford and Cambridge tap into a fairly simple, straightforward UCAS application process. It's really wonderful, and we here in the United States should be begging the UCAS people to take over the U.S. college and university application process.

- A student who ends up in the UK will need: a UK mobile phone; a UK (or UK-compatible) bank account; and a UK ID. The problem with all of this is that a student might get into a chicken-or-egg situation, where a student needs a UK bank account to get the cell phone, a UK cell phone to get the identity papers, and maybe both UK ID and a cell phone to get the bank account. A great applicant probably doesn't need any kind of consultant to help with the UCAS process, but a student might appreciate the help of a consultant who can help the student get through the phone/bank/ID maze.

- Costs at a typical UK university for a U.S. resident are comparable to the cost of going to some place like the University of Wisconsin out-of-state. Students there can probably get merit aid and student loans of some kinds but may not get the same kind of need-based aid they'd get in the United States. So, UK schools may be better for donut hole families that think paying $40,000 or $50,000 per year is a lot better than paying $75,000 per year for Vassar. Students with less cash may be able to make the math work, too, but they might have harder time.

- The big question is: How will U.S. grad schools really react to applicants with bachelor's degrees from non-U.S. universities and U.S. passports? It's hard to figure that out, because most websites talking about grad school admissions assume that applicants from non-U.S. universities will have language and visa problems. The idea of U.S. citizens coming back to the U.S. with bachelor's degrees from universities in the UK seems to be pretty new.

And the prevailing thought (supported by anecdata) is that American kids who choose to forego U.S. universities to skip on over to the pond do so because they couldn't get into or make it at a comparably elite institution stateside. Think of kids like Caroline Calloway who, after she couldn't cut it at NYU, transferred to Cambridge. More practically speaking, of course U.S. grads would have a leg up over non-U.S. grads if they're gunning for U.S.-based positions.

If you're committed to sending your kid to the UK for college, their best bet is to probably settle down or set up their career over there. They may very well end up wanting to stay there, regardless.

Nonsense. DH and I both graduated from Edinburgh and I went to Harvard Med and he to Harvard Law. We have lots of American friends seeking to send their kids to UK or Irish universities for the experience as well as the high level of classic education.

+1 Exactly. Unfortunately there are a few very moronic posters who always make an appearance when UK universities are discussed and beat their chest repeating "you'll never get taken seriously in the US job market" which frankly makes me laugh very hard, coming from a family who has lived and worked here in the US on and off since the 1980s in extremely prestigious and well paid jobs, and UK university degrees, (yes, including Oxford).

You sound extremely insufferable.

You don't put "extremely" alongside "insufferable" - you're either insufferable or you're not. Grammar is your friend, well probably not yours exactly...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to hear others’ experience of child going across the pond.

I think a lot of people who send their kids for a bachelor's in the UK have relatives in the UK.

I know people who have sons and daughters who've just started there. I don't have any reports yet on how hard or easy the classes are.

If you don't have relatives there, and you haven't lived there, I think it would be helpful to work with some kind of agency or consulting firm that understood the process, because different countries' college application processes are amazingly different complicated.

The deal with the UK is:

- UK universities often want to see certain types of AP scores, to verify that you have what they think is the equivalent of a good UK high school diploma. If students take the AP tests in the spring of their senior year, the universities will give them provisional admission. Having a provisional status is really stressful. In my opinion, applying to a UK university is great if the student will have the AP test scores required by, say, March or April. Applying to a non-U.S. university that wants AP results is pretty awful if the AP scores are likely to arrive after June. The student may have to set up a whole life in a strange new place... at the very last minute.

- Many UK universities have plenty of dorm space for international students. That's a wonderful thing.

- Most UK universities other than Oxford and Cambridge tap into a fairly simple, straightforward UCAS application process. It's really wonderful, and we here in the United States should be begging the UCAS people to take over the U.S. college and university application process.

- A student who ends up in the UK will need: a UK mobile phone; a UK (or UK-compatible) bank account; and a UK ID. The problem with all of this is that a student might get into a chicken-or-egg situation, where a student needs a UK bank account to get the cell phone, a UK cell phone to get the identity papers, and maybe both UK ID and a cell phone to get the bank account. A great applicant probably doesn't need any kind of consultant to help with the UCAS process, but a student might appreciate the help of a consultant who can help the student get through the phone/bank/ID maze.

- Costs at a typical UK university for a U.S. resident are comparable to the cost of going to some place like the University of Wisconsin out-of-state. Students there can probably get merit aid and student loans of some kinds but may not get the same kind of need-based aid they'd get in the United States. So, UK schools may be better for donut hole families that think paying $40,000 or $50,000 per year is a lot better than paying $75,000 per year for Vassar. Students with less cash may be able to make the math work, too, but they might have harder time.

- The big question is: How will U.S. grad schools really react to applicants with bachelor's degrees from non-U.S. universities and U.S. passports? It's hard to figure that out, because most websites talking about grad school admissions assume that applicants from non-U.S. universities will have language and visa problems. The idea of U.S. citizens coming back to the U.S. with bachelor's degrees from universities in the UK seems to be pretty new.

And the prevailing thought (supported by anecdata) is that American kids who choose to forego U.S. universities to skip on over to the pond do so because they couldn't get into or make it at a comparably elite institution stateside. Think of kids like Caroline Calloway who, after she couldn't cut it at NYU, transferred to Cambridge. More practically speaking, of course U.S. grads would have a leg up over non-U.S. grads if they're gunning for U.S.-based positions.

If you're committed to sending your kid to the UK for college, their best bet is to probably settle down or set up their career over there. They may very well end up wanting to stay there, regardless.

Nonsense. DH and I both graduated from Edinburgh and I went to Harvard Med and he to Harvard Law. We have lots of American friends seeking to send their kids to UK or Irish universities for the experience as well as the high level of classic education.

+1 Exactly. Unfortunately there are a few very moronic posters who always make an appearance when UK universities are discussed and beat their chest repeating "you'll never get taken seriously in the US job market" which frankly makes me laugh very hard, coming from a family who has lived and worked here in the US on and off since the 1980s in extremely prestigious and well paid jobs, and UK university degrees, (yes, including Oxford).

You sound extremely insufferable.

You don't put "extremely" alongside "insufferable" - you're either insufferable or you're not. Grammar is your friend, well probably not yours exactly...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UK universities are highly overrated if you're trying to build a career in the US. There's a reason there's a met migration into the US when it comes to higher education, even taking into account the outrageous fees.

nothing is forever, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Three years to a degree, though, in England. Four years for Scotland.
Three years at Oxford, depending on course of study, is going to cost roughly the same amount as four years at William and Mary, even with the travel. Also, if students go on a work placement or study away, costs are reduced, even for Overseas students such as Americans.

there will be more and more bright middle class American kids going to schools abroad. cheap, no fuss entrance exams compared to the American nonsense. And as their numbers grow their superior schooling will be more and more recognized in the US (though many won't even return). can't wait.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to hear others’ experience of child going across the pond.

I think a lot of people who send their kids for a bachelor's in the UK have relatives in the UK.

I know people who have sons and daughters who've just started there. I don't have any reports yet on how hard or easy the classes are.

If you don't have relatives there, and you haven't lived there, I think it would be helpful to work with some kind of agency or consulting firm that understood the process, because different countries' college application processes are amazingly different complicated.

The deal with the UK is:

- UK universities often want to see certain types of AP scores, to verify that you have what they think is the equivalent of a good UK high school diploma. If students take the AP tests in the spring of their senior year, the universities will give them provisional admission. Having a provisional status is really stressful. In my opinion, applying to a UK university is great if the student will have the AP test scores required by, say, March or April. Applying to a non-U.S. university that wants AP results is pretty awful if the AP scores are likely to arrive after June. The student may have to set up a whole life in a strange new place... at the very last minute.

- Many UK universities have plenty of dorm space for international students. That's a wonderful thing.

- Most UK universities other than Oxford and Cambridge tap into a fairly simple, straightforward UCAS application process. It's really wonderful, and we here in the United States should be begging the UCAS people to take over the U.S. college and university application process.

- A student who ends up in the UK will need: a UK mobile phone; a UK (or UK-compatible) bank account; and a UK ID. The problem with all of this is that a student might get into a chicken-or-egg situation, where a student needs a UK bank account to get the cell phone, a UK cell phone to get the identity papers, and maybe both UK ID and a cell phone to get the bank account. A great applicant probably doesn't need any kind of consultant to help with the UCAS process, but a student might appreciate the help of a consultant who can help the student get through the phone/bank/ID maze.

- Costs at a typical UK university for a U.S. resident are comparable to the cost of going to some place like the University of Wisconsin out-of-state. Students there can probably get merit aid and student loans of some kinds but may not get the same kind of need-based aid they'd get in the United States. So, UK schools may be better for donut hole families that think paying $40,000 or $50,000 per year is a lot better than paying $75,000 per year for Vassar. Students with less cash may be able to make the math work, too, but they might have harder time.

- The big question is: How will U.S. grad schools really react to applicants with bachelor's degrees from non-U.S. universities and U.S. passports? It's hard to figure that out, because most websites talking about grad school admissions assume that applicants from non-U.S. universities will have language and visa problems. The idea of U.S. citizens coming back to the U.S. with bachelor's degrees from universities in the UK seems to be pretty new.

And the prevailing thought (supported by anecdata) is that American kids who choose to forego U.S. universities to skip on over to the pond do so because they couldn't get into or make it at a comparably elite institution stateside. Think of kids like Caroline Calloway who, after she couldn't cut it at NYU, transferred to Cambridge. More practically speaking, of course U.S. grads would have a leg up over non-U.S. grads if they're gunning for U.S.-based positions.

If you're committed to sending your kid to the UK for college, their best bet is to probably settle down or set up their career over there. They may very well end up wanting to stay there, regardless.

Nonsense. DH and I both graduated from Edinburgh and I went to Harvard Med and he to Harvard Law. We have lots of American friends seeking to send their kids to UK or Irish universities for the experience as well as the high level of classic education.

Sure, sure.

?

[Anonymous]

I don’t think some posters understand why a smart American kid would want to leave this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has come up before. Roughly speaking, in terms of prestige equivalencies:

Oxbridge <= HYPSM

Imperial = Columbia/Caltech

UCL/LSE = Penn/Duke/Northwestern/Chicago

KCL/Edinburgh/Durham = Cornell/Hopkins/Brown/Dartmouth/UCLA/Berkeley

St Andrews = Rice/WashU/Emory/UMich/Georgetown

Rest of the Russell Group = UVA/CMU/NYU/Tufts

This isn’t helpful. In terms of prestige, many of these US universities are similar. I can’t differentiate the “prestige” between UVA, U Michigan, UCLA, Chicago, Cornell, Emory etc. they’re all fairly similar!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the average middle class American (read: not transnationals/dual citizens/border hoppers like yourself), getting a degree from Durham or Bristol or Southampton is just about as good as getting a degree from a community college.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on dcum. And I have been on here many years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has come up before. Roughly speaking, in terms of prestige equivalencies:

Oxbridge <= HYPSM

Imperial = Columbia/Caltech

UCL/LSE = Penn/Duke/Northwestern/Chicago

KCL/Edinburgh/Durham = Cornell/Hopkins/Brown/Dartmouth/UCLA/Berkeley

St Andrews = Rice/WashU/Emory/UMich/Georgetown

Rest of the Russell Group = UVA/CMU/NYU/Tufts

This isn’t helpful. In terms of prestige, many of these US universities are similar. I can’t differentiate the “prestige” between UVA, U Michigan, UCLA, Chicago, Cornell, Emory etc. they’re all fairly similar!

Are you a UVA booster? Because many people could tell you that even among the schools listed, there's a probable gradation of prestige, going something like Chicago > Cornell > Emory > UVA.

They're all great schools, and the UK schools above are also all fantastic - the difference of prestige between, say, Edinburgh and St Andrews, is similarly existent, though pretty small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think some posters understand why a smart American kid would want to leave this country.

+1. My very smart high school sophomore is only looking at colleges in the UK and Ireland. The trumpers and guns did her in.

[Anonymous]

Make sure your child checks the University League Tables for rankings in their course of study. Also make sure they have a look at the institution’s calendar.
Some unis don’t start the school year until October with year’s e d in July, making US-based internship timing a challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think some posters understand why a smart American kid would want to leave this country.

+1. My very smart high school sophomore is only looking at colleges in the UK and Ireland. The trumpers and guns did her in.

This seems awfully shortsighted considering the state of affairs in the UK as well -- Brexit, impending Scottish independence, rising xenophobia...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has come up before. Roughly speaking, in terms of prestige equivalencies:

Oxbridge <= HYPSM

Imperial = Columbia/Caltech

UCL/LSE = Penn/Duke/Northwestern/Chicago

KCL/Edinburgh/Durham = Cornell/Hopkins/Brown/Dartmouth/UCLA/Berkeley

St Andrews = Rice/WashU/Emory/UMich/Georgetown

Rest of the Russell Group = UVA/CMU/NYU/Tufts

As someone who lived in the Uk for four years with a spouse who taught A levels and supported the application process for the kids applying uni….. I can say with 100% certainty that this comparison is complete hogwash. I personally KNOW kids heading to KCL and only when pigs fly would they ever have had a chance at Cornell Berkeley Dartmouth UCLA. They were B+ students at best. I know kids going to Oxbridge and while they were incredibly hard workers they were by no means as impressive as some of the students I know at Princeton for example. And No One from the international school applied to St Andrew’s… Bath Warwick Edinborough and Durham but St. Andrews? It is a joke.