Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

I'm not big on overstating things in connection with what is going on in Gaza and Israel, but this is a point that rarely gets highlighted. Islam has at least 3 (that I am aware of) holy sites - Mecca, Medina, and the Dome of the Rock (Al Aqsa Mosque). Jews have one - that's it - the Temple Mount, on which the Al Aqsa Mosque sits.

Yep.

We have very few geographic sites that are significant, given that we’ve been primarily a diaspora for so long.

Honestly it makes me extremely sad that I can’t walk into the mosque site and quietly pray. I don’t want to disrespect anyone. I just want to pray at my religion’s holiest site.

Can all Muslims even visit this site? So many schisms tbh.

Yes. But if you’re not Muslim, you can’t enter the mosque itself. You can be on the grounds of the complex, but not inside the mosque.

Oh, I see. How strange as in the Koran all were considered people of the book, with many shared prohpets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no chance Israel would purposely target that hospital hours before the US president is scheduled to arrive. It is a well known hospital. It's been there for years. It's a Christian hospital. It's largely staffed by Doctors Without Borders. Israel is not targeting that building.

Abbas has just cancelled his meeting with Biden and the West Bank is presently rioting. This hospital strike is working out very well for Hamas.

I would hope that is the case (that Israel did not authorize this barbaric attack). Mainstream media are reporting it as carried out by Israel though.

It sounds more like a a Russian move (they bombed hospitals and clinics in Syria also). Russians were recorded training HAMAS fighters.

Is there any proof as to whom authorized this terrible act?

Well, Netanyahu’s own aides tweeted Israel did it, then deleted it. Why would they make that up?

I know it’s shocking they’d do that on the eve of meeting with the US President but Israel has never heeded what we have to say, and Netanyahu -as I’ve mentioned throughout the thread- is just not very smart. He would do this on purpose to thumb his nose at Biden. He’s very defiant .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also the rockets misfire all the time. They crash well short of their target and many crash in Gaza.


Here is news report from 2019 where news reporter saw them launch rockets and one misfired and hit the building right next door to the launch wait killing a Palestinian family.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/fox-news-trey-yingst-reports-from-deep-inside-hamas/amp/

And Israel has bombed hospitals repeatedly. In fact, they bombed that same hospital just earlier this week.
Israel are not opposed to bombing hospitals, medics, NGOs, civilians and wounded. They have even bombed Red Cross caravans and other aid workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no chance Israel would purposely target that hospital hours before the US president is scheduled to arrive. It is a well known hospital. It's been there for years. It's a Christian hospital. It's largely staffed by Doctors Without Borders. Israel is not targeting that building.

Abbas has just cancelled his meeting with Biden and the West Bank is presently rioting. This hospital strike is working out very well for Hamas.

I would hope that is the case (that Israel did not authorize this barbaric attack). Mainstream media are reporting it as carried out by Israel though.

It sounds more like a a Russian move (they bombed hospitals and clinics in Syria also). Russians were recorded training HAMAS fighters.

Is there any proof as to whom authorized this terrible act?

Well, Netanyahu’s own aides tweeted Israel did it, then deleted it. Why would they make that up?

I know it’s shocking they’d do that on the eve of meeting with the US President but Israel has never heeded what we have to say, and Netanyahu -as I’ve mentioned throughout the thread- is just not very smart. He would do this on purpose to thumb his nose at Biden. He’s very defiant .

fog of war? Who knows. I'll trust the photos and expert analysis myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hope the death of 500+ civilians today quenches Israel’s thirst for revenge.

Abbas has canceled his meetings with Biden.

Blame Hamas. They shot the rocket.

And, you know this how? Israeli propaganda sent you talking points?

It seems that misfiring rockets from Gaza may be an ongoing problem - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-denial-doubt-over-misfiring-rocket-claims-2022-08-11/

It's an intercepted rocket followed by a bomb drop.

What he's apparently saying is that Israel shot down the Hamas missile which fell toward the hospital, but which somehow for sure did not detonate, and simultaneously Israel launched their own missile at the hospital, which then blew it up.

Pretzel logic

Intercepted rockets detonate in air, and it is obvious from the footage that this did, they don't explode on land after being intercepted. The massive explosion is a bomb.

Iron dome does not intercept missiles over Gaza City.

Only at Gaza Border or inside Israeli land.


Nice try….

Who said anything about Iron Dome? Iron Dome is a new invention, how do you think rockets are intercepted in places that don't have Iron Domes?

What is this new magical system that intercept rockets deep inside Gaza that Israel has. Why did not use it before or last week when the carnage started out if Hamas?

Answer, there is no such system. Take a while for rickets to be tracked and iron dome to destroy them. By then, most are in Israeli territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

Actually, I think this is a known thing. The ancient Philistines are the Palestinians -- I would distance myself too, given the what 'philistine' means as an adjective.

No it’s not. The Philistines basically disappeared as a people quite a long time ago, into the Persian empire.

They seem to be one of MANY groups that left a fingerprint. TBH Palestinians may be one of the least distinct groups I've ever seen. Wow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

That’s because there was no such thing as a Palestinian as a self-identifying Muslim community until more recently.

Functionally, they are simply the people living in Palestine.

One could have been a Palestinian Jew in Mandatory Palestine and indeed there were 500,000 of them there. A common refrain during the pre-WWII period was to tell Jews to “go back to Palestine.” There were also a lot of Palestinian Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

I'm not big on overstating things in connection with what is going on in Gaza and Israel, but this is a point that rarely gets highlighted. Islam has at least 3 (that I am aware of) holy sites - Mecca, Medina, and the Dome of the Rock (Al Aqsa Mosque). Jews have one - that's it - the Temple Mount, on which the Al Aqsa Mosque sits.

Yep.

We have very few geographic sites that are significant, given that we’ve been primarily a diaspora for so long.

Honestly it makes me extremely sad that I can’t walk into the mosque site and quietly pray. I don’t want to disrespect anyone. I just want to pray at my religion’s holiest site.

Can all Muslims even visit this site? So many schisms tbh.

Yes. But if you’re not Muslim, you can’t enter the mosque itself. You can be on the grounds of the complex, but not inside the mosque.

Oh, I see. How strange as in the Koran all were considered people of the book, with many shared prohpets.

It’s an Israeli law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the rockets misfire all the time. They crash well short of their target and many crash in Gaza.


Here is news report from 2019 where news reporter saw them launch rockets and one misfired and hit the building right next door to the launch wait killing a Palestinian family.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/fox-news-trey-yingst-reports-from-deep-inside-hamas/amp/

And Israel has bombed hospitals repeatedly. In fact, they bombed that same hospital just earlier this week.
Israel are not opposed to bombing hospitals, medics, NGOs, civilians and wounded. They have even bombed Red Cross caravans and other aid workers.

This isn't as shocking as you make it sound. Red cross traverse war zones. They try to travel during cease fires, but it's a freaking risky job. A lot can happen accidentally in war. That's why these kinds of workers, doctors without medicine etc. are so admired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

Actually, I think this is a known thing. The ancient Philistines are the Palestinians -- I would distance myself too, given the what 'philistine' means as an adjective.

No it’s not. The Philistines basically disappeared as a people quite a long time ago, into the Persian empire.

They seem to be one of MANY groups that left a fingerprint. TBH Palestinians may be one of the least distinct groups I've ever seen. Wow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

That’s because there was no such thing as a Palestinian as a self-identifying Muslim community until more recently.

Functionally, they are simply the people living in Palestine.

One could have been a Palestinian Jew in Mandatory Palestine and indeed there were 500,000 of them there. A common refrain during the pre-WWII period was to tell Jews to “go back to Palestine.” There were also a lot of Palestinian Christians.

This is actually how I think of Palestine. However, it seems like both the Jews and Christians dispersed and who was left claiming it is the Muslim community that has become ever more dominant in its affairs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://x.com/AdamBienkov/status/1714382690420449586?s=20

Israel keeps lying.

Plus, none of Hamas prior rockets have had anywhere near the capacity of this one. Now all of a sudden they have the capacity to obliterate a hospital.

Israel are lying.

Exactly! They took credit for killing a lot of terrorist when they first bombed the hospital. Posted a tweet they later deleted. Once they found out how many civilians had been killed there stated blaming Hamas. The Israeli government is no better than Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Why hasn’t Elon musk invented that flashlight zapper thing they have in Men in Black movies?

The one that erases certain memories.

It would be a lot cheaper to invent then all money on the wars Israel is always fighting.

Just zap the history from the Jews and Palestinians and Arabs and Persians and whomever else has an interest and start over like everyone just showed up to a party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

I'm not big on overstating things in connection with what is going on in Gaza and Israel, but this is a point that rarely gets highlighted. Islam has at least 3 (that I am aware of) holy sites - Mecca, Medina, and the Dome of the Rock (Al Aqsa Mosque). Jews have one - that's it - the Temple Mount, on which the Al Aqsa Mosque sits.

Yep.

We have very few geographic sites that are significant, given that we’ve been primarily a diaspora for so long.

Honestly it makes me extremely sad that I can’t walk into the mosque site and quietly pray. I don’t want to disrespect anyone. I just want to pray at my religion’s holiest site.

Can all Muslims even visit this site? So many schisms tbh.

Yes. But if you’re not Muslim, you can’t enter the mosque itself. You can be on the grounds of the complex, but not inside the mosque.

Oh, I see. How strange as in the Koran all were considered people of the book, with many shared prohpets.

It’s an Israeli law.

It's actually a great example of conflict avoidance, but it's a pity that can't be replaced with cooperation among all the entities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the rockets misfire all the time. They crash well short of their target and many crash in Gaza.


Here is news report from 2019 where news reporter saw them launch rockets and one misfired and hit the building right next door to the launch wait killing a Palestinian family.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/fox-news-trey-yingst-reports-from-deep-inside-hamas/amp/

And Israel has bombed hospitals repeatedly. In fact, they bombed that same hospital just earlier this week.
Israel are not opposed to bombing hospitals, medics, NGOs, civilians and wounded. They have even bombed Red Cross caravans and other aid workers.

It doesn't matter if Israel did it. It wouldn't change anything. At most they'd say, oh ooppsie, terrorists made me do it. Israel never admits fault for anything and no one is ever punished for what they do to Palestinians. No IDF soldier has ever been sentenced to anything. Complaints about settler violence that result in convictions are like 3%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no chance Israel would purposely target that hospital hours before the US president is scheduled to arrive. It is a well known hospital. It's been there for years. It's a Christian hospital. It's largely staffed by Doctors Without Borders. Israel is not targeting that building.

Abbas has just cancelled his meeting with Biden and the West Bank is presently rioting. This hospital strike is working out very well for Hamas.

I would hope that is the case (that Israel did not authorize this barbaric attack). Mainstream media are reporting it as carried out by Israel though.

It sounds more like a a Russian move (they bombed hospitals and clinics in Syria also). Russians were recorded training HAMAS fighters.

Is there any proof as to whom authorized this terrible act?

Well, Netanyahu’s own aides tweeted Israel did it, then deleted it. Why would they make that up?

I know it’s shocking they’d do that on the eve of meeting with the US President but Israel has never heeded what we have to say, and Netanyahu -as I’ve mentioned throughout the thread- is just not very smart. He would do this on purpose to thumb his nose at Biden. He’s very defiant .

The screenshots of the deleted tweet could have been easily doctored. Not saying it was, but people are really quick to believe digital proof which is strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one curious to know the age/race/income/education level of some of the posters on this board? I find it all fascinating from a sociological perspective.

I 100% condemn Israel's atrocities. They are war criminals. I am 40+, female, attorney, and make a good amount of money. The more education you have about the region, the more likely you are to understand that Israel is not a good actor.

My far right Christian neighbors, however, believe that Israel has the second coming of Christ on their side and God is working with them to destroy Muslims.

There is a large discrepancy in education here.

Interesting. Similar age/income/education here and couldn't disagree more.

Are you Jewish?

Most of my friends with higher levels of education and having any level or insight into the region have understood that Israel has created an apartheid state. The only lawyers that I know that disagree with me are Jewish.

So only the stupid Jews support Israel? Is that your point?