Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

I mean the whole homeland thing is such nonsense. There are millions if not billions of people happily living in places that aren’t their homelands. Frankly the smart ones left their homelands when they became inhospitable and made their way forward somewhere else with better offerings.

Too bad Egypt doesn't want Gaza and Jordan doesn't want the West Bank. That seems the most obvious solution to me as a third party observer.

Read some history. Egypt doesn’t have a history as a good actor here. Before Jimmy Carter helped broker peace between Egypt and Israel, Egypt had a habit of attacking Israel.

Egypt attacked Israel twice and Israel attacked Egypt twice. I'd say they're even steven.

[Anonymous]

[img]i

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

You couldn't be more wrong. DH majored in history before law school with an emphasis in this field.

Same. My husband graduated from Michigan with honors and majored in History. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Israel.

Our conversations about this always involve researching primary sources and verifying information as we talk.

Ok, we've jumped the shark now lol.

Huh? Why?

DP.

"My husband says....and he's got his degree from...." is comedic gold.

DP... I agree that's pretty weak - but at least it beats the 99% of opinions here which are solely informed by social media and dippy 24 hour news channels.

Oh for the love. I wasn’t saying I cite him. Someone asked for people’s backgrounds. I gave mine and his.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

You couldn't be more wrong. DH majored in history before law school with an emphasis in this field.

Same. My husband graduated from Michigan with honors and majored in History. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Israel.

Our conversations about this always involve researching primary sources and verifying information as we talk.

Wait a second, people here are citing their husbands' undergrad degrees as authoritative here?

Good lord.

What? I’m saying he’s well informed. So am I.

Does either one of you have real world experience or was all your expertise gained in some classroom? I've noticed in the past several years the people who are wrong the most are those who think they know everything because of some degree without any actual experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

I mean the whole homeland thing is such nonsense. There are millions if not billions of people happily living in places that aren’t their homelands. Frankly the smart ones left their homelands when they became inhospitable and made their way forward somewhere else with better offerings.

I have an article from The Onion with the headline "War weary Jews set up homeland between Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Syria".

I'm a Jew and I do love Israel but as a "protect my peace at all costs" sort of person, I've always wished we'd made a country for ourselves somewhere else. There would certainly be a sadness to it, but that Israel could still be a wonderful place.

That said, it would have done nothing to prevent the growth and spread of Islamic terrorism, so y'all would still have to deal with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel bombed a UN School this week. Israel bombed the Jordanian Field Hospital this week. Israel bombed the UNRWA storage facilities this week. Israel bombed the Rafah border crossing this week. Israel bombed 11 journalists this week.

Israel bombed the al-Ahli Hospital.

US and Europe fully own this Warsaw 2.0 ghetto massacre.

I have yet to see any credible,, definitive evidence to support these claims.

Israel has dropped thousands of bombs on Gaza this week - more than the US dropped on Afghanistan in a year. Yet, you somehow believe that none of those thousand bombs hit their intended targets.
Israel needs to be tried for war crimes. I don't understand how these same people have condemned Russia but support Israel in the very same actions.

Israel bombing the hospital was part of what specific campaign or activity, exactly? Again, the only other military activity within miles and miles when it happened was the Hamas launch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

You couldn't be more wrong. DH majored in history before law school with an emphasis in this field.

Same. My husband graduated from Michigan with honors and majored in History. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Israel.

Our conversations about this always involve researching primary sources and verifying information as we talk.

Wait a second, people here are citing their husbands' undergrad degrees as authoritative here?

Good lord.

What? I’m saying he’s well informed. So am I.

Does either one of you have real world experience or was all your expertise gained in some classroom? I've noticed in the past several years the people who are wrong the most are those who think they know everything because of some degree without any actual experience.

We are both Jewish. We have extensive family in Israel. I have lived all over the world.

But I guess sharing our educational backgrounds means that’s all we know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[img]i

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

You couldn't be more wrong. DH majored in history before law school with an emphasis in this field.

Same. My husband graduated from Michigan with honors and majored in History. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Israel.

Our conversations about this always involve researching primary sources and verifying information as we talk.

Ok, we've jumped the shark now lol.

Huh? Why?

DP.

"My husband says....and he's got his degree from...." is comedic gold.

DP... I agree that's pretty weak - but at least it beats the 99% of opinions here which are solely informed by social media and dippy 24 hour news channels.

Oh for the love. I wasn’t saying I cite him. Someone asked for people’s backgrounds. I gave mine and his.

Of course not. No one was suggesting that. You cite the historical records, letters and artifacts that you and DH pore over in the evenings over a glass of wine.

[Anonymous]

I saw the Al Jazeera video and yes, looks like multiple rockets were launched from deep inside Gaza towards Israel.

One malfunctioned and dropped down in Gaza territory causing the huge explosion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

I'm not big on overstating things in connection with what is going on in Gaza and Israel, but this is a point that rarely gets highlighted. Islam has at least 3 (that I am aware of) holy sites - Mecca, Medina, and the Dome of the Rock (Al Aqsa Mosque). Jews have one - that's it - the Temple Mount, on which the Al Aqsa Mosque sits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

Actually, I think this is a known thing. The ancient Philistines are the Palestinians -- I would distance myself too, given the what 'philistine' means as an adjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

Yep.

I think Al Aqsa Mosque is a good representation for it.

Muslims consider the Mosque very holy and are enraged when Jews attempt to pray there.

But here’s the problem: it happens to be on the site of the Jewish Second Temple, which the Romans destroyed. It’s the single holiest site in the world for Jews. Jews haven’t been allowed to pray there for decades.

And of course people forget it’s also the single holiest site in the world for Christians, who also haven’t been allowed to pray there.

So do Muslims have an argument for valuing the site? Yes. But so do Jews and Christians.

That's a great example. Maybe the Muslims who worship at Al Aqsa could lead by example (sharing)?

The Israeli Government has passed a law barring all non-Jews from praying there.

Someone will come on here and point to examples of Orthodox Jews going there to pray, but they are doing so in violation of Israeli law.

It would definitely be nice if Muslims allowed the site to open up.

I can’t even go there with a Jewish prayer book. It’s against the law to even bring it in.

Kind of like Bibles in SA. Lovely...

And remember this is in Israel.

For all the people who say Israel is a horrific genocidal place.

They have given Muslims exclusive access to that site, depriving Jews of praying anywhere closer to our holiest site than the Western Wall.

I'm not big on overstating things in connection with what is going on in Gaza and Israel, but this is a point that rarely gets highlighted. Islam has at least 3 (that I am aware of) holy sites - Mecca, Medina, and the Dome of the Rock (Al Aqsa Mosque). Jews have one - that's it - the Temple Mount, on which the Al Aqsa Mosque sits.

Yep.

We have very few geographic sites that are significant, given that we’ve been primarily a diaspora for so long.

Honestly it makes me extremely sad that I can’t walk into the mosque site and quietly pray. I don’t want to disrespect anyone. I just want to pray at my religion’s holiest site.