Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember when college campuses had demonstrations against South Africa?

Now they are demonstrating against Israel abuse of Palestinians

We need to stop all support for Israel.

We need to start divesting of all israel investments Just like what worked for South Africa in early 80’s

So after they eradicate Hamas, is it the expectation that the two-state solution is abandoned and that Israel integrates Palestinians into their society with full rights?

Just trying to get some clarity here on the proposition...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's astounding that today, House Republicans continued to engage in their own circle jerk of (predictably) failed Speaker votes, strongly sending the message that supporting Israel is not important or relevant to them.

Republicans are a disaster for Israel.

I cannot stand House Republicans, or any Republicans for that matter, but I see no reason why Israel should be the top priority of a U.S. legislative chamber. I would say it's far more important that a Speaker is elected, since Congress cannot function without one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember when college campuses had demonstrations against South Africa?

Now they are demonstrating against Israel abuse of Palestinians

We need to stop all support for Israel.

We need to start divesting of all israel investments Just like what worked for South Africa in early 80’s

100%.

I have learned a lot through this past week. I have not done enough to support BDS movements. I will do that now and will write my reps to not support Israel's continued slaughter. I will not buy any Israeli products or do business with those that do.

I have also learned that the there is an overwhelming amount of racism and hate from the pro-Israel crowd. They are fine with genocide and murder as long as it is Arabs, and "never again" does not apply broadly but only to them.

I've also learned that they are fine with hospital bombings, and will perpetually blame the victims. I am sickened and will not forget this moment for the rest of my life. I hope to teach my kids the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's astounding that today, House Republicans continued to engage in their own circle jerk of (predictably) failed Speaker votes, strongly sending the message that supporting Israel is not important or relevant to them.

Republicans are a disaster for Israel.

I cannot stand House Republicans, or any Republicans for that matter, but I see no reason why Israel should be the top priority of a U.S. legislative chamber. I would say it's far more important that a Speaker is elected, since Congress cannot function without one.

+1. And please God not Jordan.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands

This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.

OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.

Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.

Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.

Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government

Hahahahaha

Do you hear anyone opposing two carrier battle groups being stationed off the coast of Israel? Who has spoken out over an MEU moving to the Eastern Med? We're deploying 2k troops to Israel, have you heard anyone objecting? If Iran decides to attack or if Syria tries to do something, do you think they're there to observe?

It's called posturing dummy! The US has immense interest in the region, it cannot afford a war in a region where the world's oil supply lies, a war it is most definitely not prepared for. It's the surrounding countries, beginning with the Saudis, that hold all the cards, not Israel.

Exactly. Also, polls are one thing but when our own sons/daughters start dying on the ground, Americans will want Biden’s hide as they should. I hope this stays to posturing only, this is not our circus, not our monkeys.

+1. And that's why I said American polling now, when our military is sitting on a carrier in the eastern Mediterranean, is different than American polling when an actual, real-life ground war is on the table. Americans are not going to support their kids going to the Middle East to die again, nor should they.

Why do people assume a ground war with tons of American casualties. The last few governments that we've toppled (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan) have been relatively free from casualties. Rebuilding the latter where extremely costly in terms of lives and money. Just letting the former burn cost us almost nothing.

Libya is a hot mess. There is still a huge migrant crisis over there , and criminals from all over have taken over the nation . At one point, people were enslaving and selling African migrants and it’s caused a huge problem in Italy.

Libya was once a beautiful vacation spot and the richest country in Africa.

I think America needs to leave the entire Middle East alone. The autocrats / despots do things for a reason and they usually are very successful (Gaddafi, Saud Family, Saddam, Assad) at nation building and creating functional states when left to their own devices . Elections and politics get very heated and emotional over there because role of religion in politics and tribal/ethnic lines are often involved so there’s a reason dictators hold on to power and don’t hold elections.

We keep applying our own Western sense of democracy to places and it has failed entirely . The Arab states do better under dictatorships and this is proven. They are used to strict rules and authoritarian structure due to religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when college campuses had demonstrations against South Africa?

Now they are demonstrating against Israel abuse of Palestinians

We need to stop all support for Israel.

We need to start divesting of all israel investments Just like what worked for South Africa in early 80’s

100%.

I have learned a lot through this past week. I have not done enough to support BDS movements. I will do that now and will write my reps to not support Israel's continued slaughter. I will not buy any Israeli products or do business with those that do.

I have also learned that the there is an overwhelming amount of racism and hate from the pro-Israel crowd. They are fine with genocide and murder as long as it is Arabs, and "never again" does not apply broadly but only to them.

I've also learned that they are fine with hospital bombings, and will perpetually blame the victims. I am sickened and will not forget this moment for the rest of my life. I hope to teach my kids the same.

Nope, still wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when college campuses had demonstrations against South Africa?

Now they are demonstrating against Israel abuse of Palestinians

We need to stop all support for Israel.

We need to start divesting of all israel investments Just like what worked for South Africa in early 80’s

100%.

I have learned a lot through this past week. I have not done enough to support BDS movements. I will do that now and will write my reps to not support Israel's continued slaughter. I will not buy any Israeli products or do business with those that do.

I have also learned that the there is an overwhelming amount of racism and hate from the pro-Israel crowd. They are fine with genocide and murder as long as it is Arabs, and "never again" does not apply broadly but only to them.

I've also learned that they are fine with hospital bombings, and will perpetually blame the victims. I am sickened and will not forget this moment for the rest of my life. I hope to teach my kids the same.

Good. Log off and throw away your computer. It will do you good.

[Anonymous]

That hospital is funded and supported by St. John's Norwood. This is so heartbreaking. Can we mourn the tragedy for at least an hour before arguing over who is to blame?

[Anonymous]

Israel is bombing civilians. Violating international law and they want $10 billion from the US. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Israel is bombing civilians. Violating international law and they want $10 billion from the US. Disgusting.

They are allowed to bomb miliary targets. But you knew that.

[Anonymous]

Can you all please just mourn the lives lost at the hospital without devolving into fact-free assumptions that aren’t verified as to where the missile came from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is bombing civilians. Violating international law and they want $10 billion from the US. Disgusting.

They are allowed to bomb miliary targets. But you knew that.

Military targets are military facilities, bases, factories producing weaponry or contributing to a war effort. The entire Gaza strip, which is home to two million civilians with no way out, is not a military target. But you knew that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you all please just mourn the lives lost at the hospital without devolving into fact-free assumptions that aren’t verified as to where the missile came from?

Its the anti-Israel posters who came out ranting and screaming about the source of the missile. Maybe you should talk to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you all please just mourn the lives lost at the hospital without devolving into fact-free assumptions that aren’t verified as to where the missile came from?

Its the anti-Israel posters who came out ranting and screaming about the source of the missile. Maybe you should talk to them.

Because all the pro-Israel posters actually cared about Palestinian lives before? We have been mourning the loss of life from the beginning. It is the blood thirsty pro-Israel folks on this board who have caused for revenge, destruction, and death. And their government is giving it to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is bombing civilians. Violating international law and they want $10 billion from the US. Disgusting.

They are allowed to bomb miliary targets. But you knew that.

Military targets are military facilities, bases, factories producing weaponry or contributing to a war effort. The entire Gaza strip, which is home to two million civilians with no way out, is not a military target. But you knew that.

Its not Israel's fault that Hamas has put all of the above throughout Gaza. Take it up with them.