Looks like a new Gaza war has started

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Officials further said there had been 115 attacks on healthcare facilities and the majority of hospitals in Gaza are not functioning, with water and electricity scarce.

"Concerns over dehydration and waterborne diseases are high given the collapse of water and sanitation services," the UN Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA said in a statement. "People will start dying without water


Might be a good idea to let hostages go so you can save your own people. Unless that isn't your goal.


So you are killing your own hostages to save them?


Doesn't have to be that way. Water, food, cleanliness in exchange for hostages. Hamas cares about their own people right? I mean all of this was for the rights of the Palestinian people, right? They have the chance to negotiate clean water, sanitation, and all sorts of great things for their people. I'm sure they are at the negotiating table right now doing so, right?


Sure that makes sense and wins lots of support for a Jewish state. I am sure that no one will use that as justification to attack israel next time.


The EU gave billions in donations for a new water system. Hamas dismantled the water system and dug up the pipes and used all of the pipes to build bombs. Gaza had a new water system that Hamas destroyed to use the pipes and metal for warfare.
Billons of dollars have been given to Gaza from all over the world.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


Louder please for the people in the back.

This is the underpinning point of the Geneva convention. The basic definition is the punished group isn’t associated with the perpetrator other than by proximity. I think that’s a reasonable description of Palestinian newborns?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The UN is again pleading for aid agencies to gain access to Gaza, and warning of possible war crimes.

Ravina Shamdasani, spokeswoman for the UN high commissioner for human rights, says the organisation is "concerned" that the Israeli military's demand that Palestinians move from northern Gaza to the south could amount to the "forcible transfer of civilians - in breach of international law".

If a country is believed to have committed a war crime during conflict, the case can be looked at by the International Criminal Court (ICC) - the Palestinians are members, but Israel is not.

In a statement, Shamdasani adds that attacks on civilians - while attempting to flee the necessary parts of Gaza - must be investigated independently.

She also appeals for the "immediate and unconditional" release of all Israeli hostages, with the latest Israeli reports indicating around 199 are being held.


I remember now, the joining of ICC. Israel opposed it, now we know why


Yes, the extreme bias against it.

What is the bias against the ICC? This is an offshoot from the Nuremberg trials, so what is the extreme bias?


Oh, maybe the obsession with Israel and the downplaying of other countries’ war crimes.

Have you followed ICC proceedings? I think they are very balanced


DP. One thing I have realized in following this conflict up close is that Israeli and Jewish people are very justified in their distrust of the ICC, UN, traditional human rights organizations such as HRW, etc. I hadn’t really understood how biased and untrustworthy they were until I saw their collective responses to the Hamas massacre.

I don’t understand at this point how Israel could ever trust the ICC. I don’t think I trust them now, while I used to think the same way you did.


Everyone and every organization is out to get Jews. If this was black folks saying the same unfounded nonsense about the "white man is out to get us," we'd be told to stop pulling the race card. Please give Jews their own planet in the far end of the galaxy so the anti-Semites can't get them.


You’re disgusting.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Officials further said there had been 115 attacks on healthcare facilities and the majority of hospitals in Gaza are not functioning, with water and electricity scarce.

"Concerns over dehydration and waterborne diseases are high given the collapse of water and sanitation services," the UN Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA said in a statement. "People will start dying without water


This is terrible. I hope Hamas releases the hostages and starts helping their people.

I suppose the hostages are also without water


Because Hamas destroyed the water system that was new to use it for parts to make rockets and bombs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.



Great question.

Thoughts.

The people of Gaza Elected Hamas as their leadership in 2006? Hamas fought Fatah for Gaza and Fatah is now only in WB.

So the people to bear some responsibility here.


The issue with Hamas is they probably don’t really care about the typical Gaza resident. They just care about killing Jews. Hamas take much of the relief building materials for hospitals and schools and uses it for tunnels and bunkers.


The issue is Israel is always being bombed, shot at, assaulted by Hamas and Hezbollah. It’s such a small country. What are they supposed to do. Imagine living in Rhode Island and every day Connecticut was shooting missiles at you? You need defend yourself and Israel leaving Gaza alone would just allow Hamas to be even strong and attack Israel more frequently.

It’s not like Gaza is a peaceful nation oppressed by Israel. They in conjunction with other countries have attacked Israel many times like 1948, 1967 and currently.

So Gaza residents need to remove Hamas fro n their life as nothing good will come of it. But countries like Iran/Syria will supply Hamas as using them as a proxy to attack Israel.

So the hard answer that no one knows is how do you go into Gaza and kill Hamas and spare the innocent Gaza residents?
Anonymous
Israel has neutralized the head of Hamas’ military wing’s Central Gaza Brigade.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


They are not "carpet bombing" Gaza. And, they are not committing "war crimes."

Once again, there is a rule in International Rules of War called "proportionality.:

"The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”.

Civilians will die during wars. That is a fact that is true with all wars.
Israel's purpose in waging this war was a direct response to the attack it suffered (in which war crimes were committed) and is an effort to allow their citizens to exist. The goal of Hamas is to wipe Jews off the map. They have the backing of Iran, that has stated the same goal.
So, the military advantage Israel is seeking is to allow their nation to exist.
Anonymous
A lot of the people Hamas kidnapped were farm workers from other countries. Sadly a lot of Filipino farm workers were kidnapped.

They were just working a job trying to feed their families back in the Philippines.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The UN is again pleading for aid agencies to gain access to Gaza, and warning of possible war crimes.

Ravina Shamdasani, spokeswoman for the UN high commissioner for human rights, says the organisation is "concerned" that the Israeli military's demand that Palestinians move from northern Gaza to the south could amount to the "forcible transfer of civilians - in breach of international law".

This is just so telling, and not in the way you want it to be. You also forgot to add that you now distrust the press.

If a country is believed to have committed a war crime during conflict, the case can be looked at by the International Criminal Court (ICC) - the Palestinians are members, but Israel is not.

In a statement, Shamdasani adds that attacks on civilians - while attempting to flee the necessary parts of Gaza - must be investigated independently.

She also appeals for the "immediate and unconditional" release of all Israeli hostages, with the latest Israeli reports indicating around 199 are being held.


I remember now, the joining of ICC. Israel opposed it, now we know why


Yes, the extreme bias against it.

What is the bias against the ICC? This is an offshoot from the Nuremberg trials, so what is the extreme bias?


Oh, maybe the obsession with Israel and the downplaying of other countries’ war crimes.

Have you followed ICC proceedings? I think they are very balanced


DP. One thing I have realized in following this conflict up close is that Israeli and Jewish people are very justified in their distrust of the ICC, UN, traditional human rights organizations such as HRW, etc. I hadn’t really understood how biased and untrustworthy they were until I saw their collective responses to the Hamas massacre.

I don’t understand at this point how Israel could ever trust the ICC. I don’t think I trust them now, while I used to think the same way you did.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Israel has neutralized the head of Hamas’ military wing’s Central Gaza Brigade.


Waiting for the anti-Israel people on this thread to say this is a good thing.
Anonymous
German Chancellor arriving in Israel to show support. What a world.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
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