My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

The Federal Government said that it was the Public Schools responsibility, that is why it has fallen on the public schools. The Federal Government didn’t provide the funds to fully fund the mandate. the pandemic and social isolation at home made things worse for the current group of kids. Kids who needed support did not get them. Kids who needed therapy did not get it. Kids who needed one on one attention from professionals did not get it.

And there were plenty of parents who simply gave up during the pandemic. My UMC school had a good number of parents openly discussing how they didn’t make their child log on for class or do any work and just let their kids play video games or watch TV all day. Why? Because it was easier and because they had to work. Plenty of MS and HS kids were left fully on their own to get grades without doing any real work and now we expect them to go back to the class and meet real requirements and wonder why their behavior is poor?

i suspect that the cohort of kids who were in school during COVID is going to have a far higher number of issues then the cohort before them and the cohort following them. Some of the kids who are acting out are doing so because of diagnosable conditions and some are doing so because of poor parenting during the pandemic.

From what you posted the fault is with lazy parents. Stop blaming Covid, teachers, school, masks, etc, ad nauseum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

I hope you're applying that logic to reasonable gun laws in this country, but I doubt it. Watch out, your red MAGA hat is showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

This sounds like the opinion of someone who has never been forced to work in a room with a violent and disruptive child, and suffered from the lifelong effects of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

The point is to put professionals in these positions (eg, social workers) to work outside of, but in concert with schools. Teachers are expected to do too much outside of their "regular duties." They can't be social worker, therapist, nurse, etc. all at once. They are not trained specifically in these areas. They are there to teach. Yes, they may be able to lend an ear or bring in a snack once in a while, but some of these kids are too much to handle -- especially when there is more than one in the classroom. These kids need specialized help before returning to the school/classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

The point is to put professionals in these positions (eg, social workers) to work outside of, but in concert with schools. Teachers are expected to do too much outside of their "regular duties." They can't be social worker, therapist, nurse, etc. all at once. They are not trained specifically in these areas. They are there to teach. Yes, they may be able to lend an ear or bring in a snack once in a while, but some of these kids are too much to handle -- especially when there is more than one in the classroom. These kids need specialized help before returning to the school/classroom.

I think everyone here agrees you can’t expect the classroom teacher alone to handle these students with special needs. The schools need to bring in additional supports into the classroom to help the student avoid triggers and to work on coping mechanisms and social/emotional skills. Developing those skills typically requires an environment with peer interaction, so removing the student would be counterproductive.

[Anonymous]

My kid was traumatized by a chair thrower with ADHD, but luckily he moved away. Mainstreaming problematic kids does not help the kids that are victims of the outbursts. I think things have gotten so politically correct people are afraid to address the actual problems. Also there is nothing any kids or teachers can say to a child having a tantrum that will affect their behavior. They have to be guided or carried out of the classroom and wait for it to pass, preferably in a padded room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My (complete non-angelic) kid and his classmates were traumatized by a kid like this last year in 2nd grade. The kid finally was placed elsewhere in the winter. I don’t know what the answer is other than very expensive solutions like skilled 1:1 aides. I felt badly for the poor little guy who couldn’t control himself, the teacher, and the students who were terrified of what was going to happen every day.

1:1 aide s are not highly skilled and get paid 17/hr. The school system avoids using them because they acknowledge that there is no class existing appropriate for the child. The system is insane.

Aides, assistants, and teachers are not paid enough to be abused every day. It has little to do with skill. What would be the right amount hourly to deal with hitting kicking and chair throwing. Not enough for me and you can feel empathy for the child while admitting they do not belong in the classroom where others are trying to learn and teachers are trying to teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Has anyone noticed the extreme shortage of SPED teachers?! It's going to get worse if we don't figure this out. There is a big difference between medical setting and school setting they are not the same-why are we expecting schools to act as medical facilities. Enough is enough!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Has anyone noticed the extreme shortage of SPED teachers?! It's going to get worse if we don't figure this out. There is a big difference between medical setting and school setting they are not the same-why are we expecting schools to act as medical facilities. Enough is enough!

Yes, we desperately need to create special pay bands for special educators. And hire assistants to help with the administrative portions of the jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

This sounds like the opinion of someone who has never been forced to work in a room with a violent and disruptive child, and suffered from the lifelong effects of that.

DP.

What do you mean "forced"? How are teachers forced?

There are nursing aides making 12 dollars an hour working with violent adult patients. We can all agree that these nursing aides, teachers, class aides, assistants, police officers, etc are not paid enough for the horrors they put up with.

But no, they are not forced to be in these professions. Infact the surest way to get paid more and get more help/ resources is if all of them quit until staffing and pay improves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Has anyone noticed the extreme shortage of SPED teachers?! It's going to get worse if we don't figure this out. There is a big difference between medical setting and school setting they are not the same-why are we expecting schools to act as medical facilities. Enough is enough!

Yes, we desperately need to create special pay bands for special educators. And hire assistants to help with the administrative portions of the jobs.

For all educators because regular teachers manage these kids for a while before evaluations and additional resources become available

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

The point is to put professionals in these positions (eg, social workers) to work outside of, but in concert with schools. Teachers are expected to do too much outside of their "regular duties." They can't be social worker, therapist, nurse, etc. all at once. They are not trained specifically in these areas. They are there to teach. Yes, they may be able to lend an ear or bring in a snack once in a while, but some of these kids are too much to handle -- especially when there is more than one in the classroom. These kids need specialized help before returning to the school/classroom.

I think everyone here agrees you can’t expect the classroom teacher alone to handle these students with special needs. The schools need to bring in additional supports into the classroom to help the student avoid triggers and to work on coping mechanisms and social/emotional skills. Developing those skills typically requires an environment with peer interaction, so removing the student would be counterproductive.

Basically you’re saying it’s the obligation of the other families to sacrifice their own children’s well being to help this other child.

There are a lot of ways I work to raise kids who are kind and understanding and inclusive. Asking them to tolerate being threatened and in a high stress environment daily is not okay. The levels of cortisol and long-term health implications of being in that environment are not insignificant, on top of the immediate day to day risk and impact on their education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

Is the burden of feeding a child on the school system? Why so many free breakfasts and lunches? If there is no support for mental health in the schools, then then the mobile medical/dental vans also should not be part of the school system. Why do guidance counselors in title 1 schools work closely with county housing commissions to find affordable housing for their students families. That certainly goes beyond the education of the enrolled student.

As someone posted earlier, the school systems are the last remaining social safety net. When parents can't, society steps in to assist. You can't say we will support and assist families with everything but mental health.

The argument is that children who are acting out are having a direct impact on children that are not acting out. That's what everyone is objecting to. But if you don't support the child, the child acts out. If you don't feed the child, the child will learn to find food elsewhere. If you don't provide clothing for the child, the child will obtain clothing elsewhere---in other words, you create a child that needs to steal in order to provide for themselves. Now you've created a criminal. Do the crimes have a direct impact on you---physically no; but financially yes. We all see prices are increasing as a result of an increase in theft from retailers.

I'm looking at the long term implications and people on this thread arguing against keeping chair throwers in the classroom are only concerned about the immediate impact to their child.

This sounds like the opinion of someone who has never been forced to work in a room with a violent and disruptive child, and suffered from the lifelong effects of that.

DP.

What do you mean "forced"? How are teachers forced?

There are nursing aides making 12 dollars an hour working with violent adult patients. We can all agree that these nursing aides, teachers, class aides, assistants, police officers, etc are not paid enough for the horrors they put up with.

But no, they are not forced to be in these professions. Infact the surest way to get paid more and get more help/ resources is if all of them quit until staffing and pay improves.

The children are. Have some common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Has anyone noticed the extreme shortage of SPED teachers?! It's going to get worse if we don't figure this out. There is a big difference between medical setting and school setting they are not the same-why are we expecting schools to act as medical facilities. Enough is enough!

Yes, we desperately need to create special pay bands for special educators. And hire assistants to help with the administrative portions of the jobs.

For all educators because regular teachers manage these kids for a while before evaluations and additional resources become available

I’m certainly not opposed to higher pay in other areas too, but we should have different pay bands based on the difficulty of staffing each area.