My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.

OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.

Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.

So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?

Why not the other families in class?

The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

The Federal Government said that it was the Public Schools responsibility, that is why it has fallen on the public schools. The Federal Government didn’t provide the funds to fully fund the mandate. the pandemic and social isolation at home made things worse for the current group of kids. Kids who needed support did not get them. Kids who needed therapy did not get it. Kids who needed one on one attention from professionals did not get it.

And there were plenty of parents who simply gave up during the pandemic. My UMC school had a good number of parents openly discussing how they didn’t make their child log on for class or do any work and just let their kids play video games or watch TV all day. Why? Because it was easier and because they had to work. Plenty of MS and HS kids were left fully on their own to get grades without doing any real work and now we expect them to go back to the class and meet real requirements and wonder why their behavior is poor?

i suspect that the cohort of kids who were in school during COVID is going to have a far higher number of issues then the cohort before them and the cohort following them. Some of the kids who are acting out are doing so because of diagnosable conditions and some are doing so because of poor parenting during the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

It is a very low bar to ask for non-violent, non-disruptive kids. These kids should get the therapy they need instead of being set up to fail in school.

Kids can need more than one thing at the same time, you idiot.

You need some common sense and some empathy.

Getting the tools to succeed in school needs to take priority over actual school in such extreme cases.

Also it is common sense not to expose children and teachers to violence and disruptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.

OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.

Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.

So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?

Why not the other families in class?

The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.

I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.

Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.

I shouldn’t be surprised this thread has literally devolved into an argument about people not wanting to pay taxes for CHILDREN to go to SCHOOL. Do you hear yourself? Is this how low we’ve come as a society?

Not sure why it is so unreasonable to ask parents to chip in on the costs of raising their own children.

The unreasonable part is that nobody else in society should chip in. You're also cool with only victims of crimes paying for police, only drivers who regularly travel long distance paying for interstate highways, only old people paying for Medicare, only people who don't want to be poisoned chipping in for the FDA?

No idea what you are talking about. Who pays for a kid’s school clothes, school supplies, meals, etc?

Anyone having kids should expect to pay for them. Not all school options are free, and for many families and for many reasons, free school is not an option. I would never assume that free school is even an option for an individual kid.

No idea what I'm talking about? Are you the PP who said ONLY parents of school aged children should pay for public schools, thus ending free public education as a taxpayer funded service with a larger social benefit? Nobody has said anything about parents ceasing to pay for kids clothing, food, and shelter so I'm not sure where that came from.

Most parents in the US do in fact assume free public schools will work for their kid. They do for most kids. It's really unfortunate they don't have the level of funding needed for the highest needs kids, but I don't see how turning this into "only rich people should have kids" helps.

Majority of my peers cannot use public schools for their kids, for various reasons. So they pay tuition, which is really no big deal. The costs of raising children are huge and tuition doesn’t make much of a difference.

When you rely on free schools, you could be making a mistake, which is really what this thread is about. Many people no longer want to continue funding it since it isn’t working.

I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word “cannot.”

And your concern about violence would be a lot more credible if not for your tirade about your neighbor’s daighter and her non-violent stims in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

So no sports, arts or music?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

So no sports, arts or music?

Do you not know what an education is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

So no sports, arts or music?

Do you not know what an education is?

Do you? Some kids need teaching assistants. Others need aides. I’m not ok with paying for Timmy’s assistant while Timmy’s mom calls for Lilly to be kicked out of school, because she needs an aide. Or else screw it all, I want all my money back, because none of my kids are in that class anyway.

[Anonymous]

I have a ton of empathy for the kids who are scared of the chair thrower, but, man, these posts always bring out the worst in DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

So no sports, arts or music?

Do you not know what an education is?

Do you? Some kids need teaching assistants. Others need aides. I’m not ok with paying for Timmy’s assistant while Timmy’s mom calls for Lilly to be kicked out of school, because she needs an aide. Or else screw it all, I want all my money back, because none of my kids are in that class anyway.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a ton of empathy for the kids who are scared of the chair thrower, but, man, these posts always bring out the worst in DCUM.

You’re assuming that poster is serious. I'm sure underneath his rhetoric it's coming from a place of sincerity, but it's pretty clear he's just been trolling in this thread with his specific comments and "proposals."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

The Federal Government said that it was the Public Schools responsibility, that is why it has fallen on the public schools. The Federal Government didn’t provide the funds to fully fund the mandate. the pandemic and social isolation at home made things worse for the current group of kids. Kids who needed support did not get them. Kids who needed therapy did not get it. Kids who needed one on one attention from professionals did not get it.

And there were plenty of parents who simply gave up during the pandemic. My UMC school had a good number of parents openly discussing how they didn’t make their child log on for class or do any work and just let their kids play video games or watch TV all day. Why? Because it was easier and because they had to work. Plenty of MS and HS kids were left fully on their own to get grades without doing any real work and now we expect them to go back to the class and meet real requirements and wonder why their behavior is poor?

i suspect that the cohort of kids who were in school during COVID is going to have a far higher number of issues then the cohort before them and the cohort following them. Some of the kids who are acting out are doing so because of diagnosable conditions and some are doing so because of poor parenting during the pandemic.

Federal government says public schools must provide education, not medical care. They need to provide the chair thrower an education, but it isn’t the school’s responsibility to make sure he is properly medicated so he doesn’t throw chairs. Just like schools provide handicap ramps to make sure their building is wheelchair accessible, they aren’t providing wheelchairs and leg braces and devices for physical disabilities. Why are schools expected to provide the actual treatment for mental disabilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

The Federal Government said that it was the Public Schools responsibility, that is why it has fallen on the public schools. The Federal Government didn’t provide the funds to fully fund the mandate. the pandemic and social isolation at home made things worse for the current group of kids. Kids who needed support did not get them. Kids who needed therapy did not get it. Kids who needed one on one attention from professionals did not get it.

And there were plenty of parents who simply gave up during the pandemic. My UMC school had a good number of parents openly discussing how they didn’t make their child log on for class or do any work and just let their kids play video games or watch TV all day. Why? Because it was easier and because they had to work. Plenty of MS and HS kids were left fully on their own to get grades without doing any real work and now we expect them to go back to the class and meet real requirements and wonder why their behavior is poor?

i suspect that the cohort of kids who were in school during COVID is going to have a far higher number of issues then the cohort before them and the cohort following them. Some of the kids who are acting out are doing so because of diagnosable conditions and some are doing so because of poor parenting during the pandemic.

Federal government says public schools must provide education, not medical care. They need to provide the chair thrower an education, but it isn’t the school’s responsibility to make sure he is properly medicated so he doesn’t throw chairs. Just like schools provide handicap ramps to make sure their building is wheelchair accessible, they aren’t providing wheelchairs and leg braces and devices for physical disabilities. Why are schools expected to provide the actual treatment for mental disabilities?

First of all, schools don’t provide broad treatment for “mental disabilities.” Their services are limited to those with an educational impact. If you look at the special needs forum, you’ll see many examples where schools refuse to provide certain services or accommodations, claiming there’s no educational impact.

Second, did you realize schools must provide aides to children with physical disabilities, when those physical disabilities would otherwise prevent them accessing the curriculum? Some programs even provide occupational therapy to help with, e.g., learning to go up and down stairs, which has an impact on being on a student’s ability to participate in school.

But you’re right— it would be a lot cheaper to just say everyone with disabilities should stay home. Think of how much money schools, government facilities, and businesses could save if they didn’t need to accommodate people with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

I taught ED kids for thirty years. Our program had very small classes in public school, with options for kids to take breaks in another room and staff who were available for counseling. Kids with aggressive outbursts had consequences, rewards for improving their behavior, and a recognition by staff that were doing the best they could. Many, many of my students returned to general education successfully.

The problem now is that there is some kind of resistance on the part of schools to allow a move to our program. Our numbers are very low. Even when parents want the move, the school pushes against it. I truly don’t understand why. We all want the least restrictive environment, but it doesn’t take a whole school year to decide this.

And we have families who de everything they can to support their child, and others who refuse therapy or meds and skate by without us having a clear reason for a CPS referral.

I love working with these kids and seeing them relax and make progress in our setting. We can’t get them here, though.

My sincere best wishes for every family trying to help their child succeed, and my sincere advice to keep pushing to get your child out of an unsafe environment. We all want what’s best for our kids.

[Anonymous]

At some point some family is going to sue the school district because their child has PTSD from being in class with a child who constantly explodes, due to mental health issues beyond their control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

The Federal Government said that it was the Public Schools responsibility, that is why it has fallen on the public schools. The Federal Government didn’t provide the funds to fully fund the mandate. the pandemic and social isolation at home made things worse for the current group of kids. Kids who needed support did not get them. Kids who needed therapy did not get it. Kids who needed one on one attention from professionals did not get it.

And there were plenty of parents who simply gave up during the pandemic. My UMC school had a good number of parents openly discussing how they didn’t make their child log on for class or do any work and just let their kids play video games or watch TV all day. Why? Because it was easier and because they had to work. Plenty of MS and HS kids were left fully on their own to get grades without doing any real work and now we expect them to go back to the class and meet real requirements and wonder why their behavior is poor?

i suspect that the cohort of kids who were in school during COVID is going to have a far higher number of issues then the cohort before them and the cohort following them. Some of the kids who are acting out are doing so because of diagnosable conditions and some are doing so because of poor parenting during the pandemic.

Federal government says public schools must provide education, not medical care. They need to provide the chair thrower an education, but it isn’t the school’s responsibility to make sure he is properly medicated so he doesn’t throw chairs. Just like schools provide handicap ramps to make sure their building is wheelchair accessible, they aren’t providing wheelchairs and leg braces and devices for physical disabilities. Why are schools expected to provide the actual treatment for mental disabilities?

First of all, schools don’t provide broad treatment for “mental disabilities.” Their services are limited to those with an educational impact. If you look at the special needs forum, you’ll see many examples where schools refuse to provide certain services or accommodations, claiming there’s no educational impact.

Second, did you realize schools must provide aides to children with physical disabilities, when those physical disabilities would otherwise prevent them accessing the curriculum? Some programs even provide occupational therapy to help with, e.g., learning to go up and down stairs, which has an impact on being on a student’s ability to participate in school.

But you’re right— it would be a lot cheaper to just say everyone with disabilities should stay home. Think of how much money schools, government facilities, and businesses could save if they didn’t need to accommodate people with disabilities.

You can argue just about any treatment aspect of the numerous mental “disabilities” kids have now affect their education. Schools cannot possibly be responsible for addressing them all and basically providing treatment. Parents need to ultimately be the ones that make sure their child is treated to the extent they can sit in class without violent disruptions. If they can’t then they need to stay home and receive it virtually. Expecting schools to control mentally unstable kids is unacceptable