Teens raised in progressive religious home choosing not to be confirmed

[Anonymous]

(Hello -- OP here. Given the specialized audience I'm cross-posting here hoping to get more wisdom and advice for my heartbroken self.)

Looking for advice and thoughts from other religious progressives --

Our two kids, ages 14 and 15, are about to start confirmation classes at our progressive Methodist church. We have a great congregation that we all feel connected to on some level, though for our kids, especially the 14 year old son but perhaps for both kids, the connection is more about community or social justice than religion.

My husband and I have made it clear since the kids were young that we expect them to go to church with us, because it is our family value, because we want them to have a religious education, and to put them in a position to make an informed choice about religion when they are older. Sometimes we have lived in places where there were no progessive churches or churches that felt comfortable to us, but we found the best fit and went anyway, because we valued it and grew from the experience, even when it could be uncomfortable at times.

Confirmation will be in early June, and so far it looks like my 14 yo son will definitely choose _not_ to be confirmed. My 15 yo daughter is on the fence.

I feel so torn up about this. I strongly believe that the kids need to make their own choice. But it is so hard to think that their choices are likely not to be my choice and that I think their lives will be less meaningful and rich as a result. When I was a teen, it was assumed that all of us youth would be confirmed (and confirmation was earlier, at 13, and the classes lasted for two years, so it wasn't so rushed), so I went along with it. I don't know that was necessarily an informed decision then or that I was prepared to make the decision, but the social pressure and, in a sense, lack of real option to say no, did keep me ostensibly connected to the church or at least prevent the option of outright rejecting it. In the next decade, I had a long journey -- exploring other Christian denominations, Unitarian/Universalism, making close Jewish friends and thinking about becoming Jewish, and then finally finding our current Protestant congregation that I connected with.

I hate that our kids are being asked to make a decision at such a young age, yet choosing not to put them in confirmation class when all their peers are doing it would be wierd. And what message would that send -- they are less adult, less capable than their peers?

In a way it was a blessing that confirmation was so expected when i was a teen and that it happened earlier. I was also less wordly than my kids, and didn't really question the process. It just meant less -- it was a ceremony everyone did, and you sorted out your real feelings later in life. I felt like it left my generation connected to the church -- like an umbilical cord -- and we could choose how to active to make that connection later. I did a lot of searching as a young adult. Ultimately, although raised Lutheran it was a Methodist congregation that I really connected with. I worry that with the kids being given the real option to say no to the church at the age at such young ages--14 and 15--they will say no, and it will be a hard road to come back to the church later if they want to, given that they have already rejected the church.

I'm not concerned about them going to hell or anything like that. That's not my theology and I don't believe that will happen; I think we are all part of God's family, regardless of our actions.

What I do think might happen is that they are forced into a premature decision about whether or not to affiliate with a religious belief/community throughout their life. And that if they decide no now, they will not search -- as I did -- for a way to meaningfully integrate a religious heritage into their lives. And as a result, theh will miss a religious dimension of meaning, questioning, growing, connection, and social activism that has meant so much to me, and that I really wish we could be a part of their lives.

Has anyone BTDT? Words of wisdom?

Also, what did you do once your teens decided against confirmation but were still living at home? Let them skip church? Make them go anyway?

In my case, when I was an older teen and questioning, my parents let me skip our church as long as I went to a religious service on the weekend. It was a great compromise. I went to all sorts of houses of worship -- Christian, UU, Jewish, Hindu, etc. I had a sense of agency, but still a responsibility to explore spirituality. But my kids are younger (and don't have driver's licenses.) And my son -- the younger, more skeptical one -- was uninterested when I suggested recently that as an alternative to church, I could take him to a secular humanist congregation so he could explore what it means to live an ethical life connected to community without a religious dimension.

Thank you for your wisdom and compassion.

[Anonymous]

If you really want them to have a choice, let them have the choice. Do they need to be confirmed now? Can it be something they choose to do later?

My parents never had my siblings and I baptized because they wanted us to be able to choose for ourselves. Well, my siblings and I are all atheists and I am very glad that I had the option to choose.

[Anonymous]

“and it will be a hard road to come back to the church later if they want to, given that they have already rejected the church.”

Why do you believe the above? What will make it so hard to be confirmed later?

[Anonymous]

ok, OP, I have lots of thoughts on this as I've been through it myself. (fyi we are Catholic).

When I was to get confirmed, I was in 8th grade. Everyone said it was my choice. I decided I didn't want to. Suddenly the pressure was on, and long story short, my mom made me get confirmed. I was so pissed off. I chose Joan of Arc as my saint because I wanted to burn down the church (I know, I totally confused her manner of death with her fighting spirit)

Anyways, now in the Archdiocese we are in (Los Angeles), they've changed the rules and the kids get confirmed at the end of 10th grade (so, around 16 y.o.). It's a 2 year program starting in 9th.

I think this is a bad set up. I believe it's because most Catholic schools end in 8th grade, and then lots of kids go to non-Catholic schools, and the Archdiocese is trying to hold on to them longer. But it's a set up to have a higher drop out rate, because

1) kids at this age are wired to rebel,

2) kids at this age are really stressed out re college etc and don't need another thing piled on, and

3) at least for us, there is no carrot (material is not interesting) and no stick (can't send misbehaving kids to the principal's office, so those kids disrupt the class and recruit others)

So. Different parents in our group have done different things.

One mom said, look, you can do what you want when you are out of the house, but as long as you are under our roof, we'd like you to get confirmed. We don't ask much back from you, but this we would like.

Another mom's strategy is bribery.

My strategy was "my mom made me get confirmed so I'm not going to make you. But I'd like you to go for three months and then decide."

My DD went for different reasons. First, she got to see her best friend, who was now at a different high school. Then it was to be entertained by all the boys making goof-balls of themselves. At times she wanted to quit. I told her she could; I never waivered on that.

After she had completed a year, new church scandals broke out. I told her I really had no arguments for her staying in; I just couldn't justify the institutional corruption. She decided to stay in--one important point is regardless of what was going on at a higher level, our particular church and priests and church families are very well funtioning (not dysfunctional) so our experience has been good.

She had issues with some of the positions of the Church; and I'll get flamed for this but I said that for me, I'm a cafeteria Catholic and I use it as a tool--I take what works for me and leave out what doesn't. The don't throw the baby out with the bathwater approach.

Anyways, what I really found that helped was me NOT pushing her. It feels like her choice. It IS her choice. We are two years in, and about a month ago she quit, and that was hard for me because we had done so much stuff (volunteering, etc) and it seemed silly to quit when she had completed all the requirements.

There were so many ups and downs. At one point she quit and told the leader that since my DH is Episcopalian, the whole family was moving to the E. Church. (that was irritating!)

Then she decided she wanted to talk to a parishioner who was a scientist to discuss the finer points of it all. So I set that up.

I really had to "give it over," OP. Just decide that it may happen, or not happen.

At this point, it's happening.

Look if your kid has critical thinking skills, of course they are going to question the religion and if there is a God etc. And as I said, developmentally they are programmed to rebel. I think if your kid is like mine and is not going to be bribed or cowed into it, then you have to let it go.

I'd ask for three months (or whatever time frame makes sense) in the program.

[Anonymous]

^^last line should read, "But ask your kid for three months or so--just to start the program, before they decide."

And one more thing. My kids' old principal, a super smart and wise elderly nun, said that it's typical that teens move away from the teachings, but the important thing is you planted the seed. Then when they have kids, they gravitate back toward it; they see the value in it. The important thing, planting the seed, has already been accomplished. They have the-thing-to-go-back-to.

So in that way I respectfully disagree with the second part of 2:42's comments. Regarding "choice," your kid is in the same place if they were baptized or not; they still have a choice to head to or away from faith. The default state is what is different. People tend to gravitate toward their default, especially when times are tough. So the question is, what default to give them. Parents choose differently based on what they think is the better default.

But that isn't your issue. You've done your part already, OP. So take the pressure off, let your kid choose, and let it go. What a kid decides at 15 does not mean that will be his decision for the rest of his life.

[Anonymous]

You have managed to raise kids who can think for themselves, at least somewhat, despite having religious ideas pushed on them their whole life. Congratulations.

What was the problem again, or question? They are teens and can decide whether they believe in particular religious ideas or not. I’m not sure what you think your option is. You can’t force them into religion. It’s a form of abuse, really. And trying to force them to accept your illogical view on the world will only alienate them.

You sound like a nice person, so just accept your kids for what they are. Surely that’s what they preach at your church.

[Anonymous]

I comprehend your disappointment but I think you are placing way too much weight on confirmation. Declining confirmation now isn't a rejection of the church, nor will getting confirmed now tie them to the church (especially if it's done while their hearts aren't in it). I was confirmed Presbyterian and I'm currently UU and there was a long period in between where I was a non-attending believer. At no point did I feel a confirmation ceremony in my youth constrained my choices or bound me to a denomination.

FWIW I think they should keep attending church if that's the family rule. That will underscore that nobody has rejected anything.

[Anonymous]

I think if you build up this confirmation as such a big life decision that they get to make on their own then you make it more likely they will choose no. Is it not something they can do at any time when/if they decide they’re ready? Or is it a “you do this for me/your family and then you get to decide how involved you actually want to be”? We are Jewish, my parents told us you will do a Bar/Bat Mitzvah because that is learning the basic level of your heritage/religion and that you do for us. After that it’s up to you if you continue or not. If your religion sets up confirmation as a personal choice, then it will be hard for you to frame it as the foundation or culmination of what they do for you. So then I would tell them if they don’t feel right about doing it now, they can do it at any time they do feel ready/right. Teen years are meant to be years of questioning, and maybe in the future it will feel more right to be confirmed. If your religion doesn’t make it a “now or never” decision (and my impression of Christianity is the later conversions/commitments are a thing), then why frame it that way yourself? Why push them into a more definitive act now, at this age? Just tell them it’s not all or nothing and they can wait until they feel ready, whenever that may be.

[Anonymous]

Separate this from religion and put in any other context: kids are not miniatures of us. There may be some overlap in values and interests, but they are individuals with their own sets of desires, needs, and perspectives.

Don't assume that they will never come back to the church. They may. The less stress you put on it the less likely they are to "rebel."

Further, don't assume that their lives will be less rich or meaningful without the church. YOUR life may be so but they are different people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you really want them to have a choice, let them have the choice. Do they need to be confirmed now? Can it be something they choose to do later?

My parents never had my siblings and I baptized because they wanted us to be able to choose for ourselves. Well, my siblings and I are all atheists and I am very glad that I had the option to choose.

My husband was raised this way too, but from his perspective he wasn't really given a choice because he wasn't raised in a religious tradition or with an understanding. He feels that is much harder to come by as an adult. At least if you are taught and experience what it means to be a part of a congregation, you know what what you are choosing to reject. This is why he wanted our kids raised in a church. But when it came time for Confirmation, he made sure they got hear both of our perspectives and make their own choices. They had a healthy dose of realistic skepticism, they question everything, but my kids are 'hedge your bets' types, so they chose confirmation. I think what helped was that they understood that faith is a lifelong learning process and everyone is constantly questioning and reevaluating and learning. Confirmation is saying you want to continue on that journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I comprehend your disappointment but I think you are placing way too much weight on confirmation. Declining confirmation now isn't a rejection of the church, nor will getting confirmed now tie them to the church (especially if it's done while their hearts aren't in it).

I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church at 17 and have been active in the church my entire life. My sister chose not to be confirmed. She now teaches Sunday School and is a regular churchgoer with her children. She still has no plans for conformation, but the only thing that means is that she can't be on the vestry.

I have told my children that baptism was my choice, confirmation is theirs. My teenager shows no interest in confirmation, but is active in her youth group. I'm happy that she find sworth in being connected to the church community.

[Anonymous]

There should be no compulsion in matters of faith. Once they are old enough to have agency you should let them follow their own path.

[Anonymous]

From a religious perspective, you cannot push confirmation on another. It has to come from within. You can still maintain your family values and expect them to attend church weekly until they go to college.

I wasn't baptized into the Methodist church until I was in college, where I bonded with a youth group there and felt the pull of fellowship. It was a lovely ceremony, I never felt isolated or embarrassed or too old. My children attend services weekly - in other words, I found my way to the church at a later than usual age, and my connection has lasted. Don't feel like confirmation is the end all, be all. Church is waiting for when they feel ready. (And often, that point is later when a wedding and/or their own children's upbringing is on their mind).

[Anonymous]

I know a number of people who got confirmed as adults including in the Methodist Church. If they aren't feeling it, I think it's appropriate to say "at this time, I can't move forward."

You could make them do the confirmation classes with the understanding that the choice at the end will be their own. However, in the case of your DS that sounds like it might push him even farther away. If you want to be strategic maybe send him to a really fun Methodist summer camp. Is he involved in a youth group?

It's a tough situation. I think your commitment to a faith community for the spiritual aspect and the community and tradition aspects are a gift to your kids. Having been that agnostic kid, I know that nothing could have made me conform, but as an adult I do wish I had a religious community and tradition to call my own.

[Anonymous]

I was raised in a progressive Methodist church. I was confirmed, active in youth group, etc. The church is the center of my parents social lives. I never believed in God. I had some ok friends their but it wasn’t my thing. I never went to church again after I turned 16. I got married in that church - to a Catholic. And we’ve never been to church together and are raising our kids without religion. I promise you our lives are rich and full and fulfilling.