My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

-1 No one requires health care insurance in this country. Until that happens, you can’t hold the medical community responsible for in school anything. Of course, it should be wrap around care. It isn’t. It isn’t even required to have health insurance for your kid. Maybe you are starting to see just how thin and full of holes our social safety net is.

If kids cannot be in-person safely then let them do virtual. The healthcare burden of the child is not on the school system.

[Anonymous]

I would add to the medical discussion, that many schools won’t allow outside ABA (behavior management) therapists in the schools for liability reasons. So, even if we COULD get medical care and therapy for all these kids, litigation gets in the way AGAIN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

[Anonymous]

The reason why were seeing this huge uptick of behaviors in schools it’s because schools are pretty much the only part of the safety net left standing for many many families.

I think there’s a school in Dallas that is turning its library into a disciplinary center. I believe the kids do some sort of online education. So I guess the vision is turning into reality.

It’s pretty clear that a big backlash is coming. It remains to be seen what sort of shape it takes.

I’ve never raised her hand to my kids. I can see why it’s no longer recommended. Too often it just turned into abuse. But it was always a myth that children were going to magically be compliant on a population wide level. Some people just aren’t wired that way.

I’d like to see more calm down rooms in elementary schools where students can freely enter if needed. It is going to be cheaper to teach these kids to be regulated so that they don’t become criminals.

That said, I live in a community where I haven’t seen these kind of behaviors in my kids experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Best comment so far!

I have tried to provide 1:1 support for my child and the school won’t allow me to!! They would rather him be unsupported and cause issues so he can be suspended, thereby traumatizing him in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

It is a very low bar to ask for non-violent, non-disruptive kids. These kids should get the therapy they need instead of being set up to fail in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

Safety from violence for children in school now, tomorrow and forever!

YES

Get kids the help they need, dammit.

Where were these issues 30, 40, 50 years ago? What has changed?

30, 40, 50 years ago we didn’t provide schooling for these kids. They were either kicked out of school and their parents responsibility or they were sent to “schools” that were essentially warehousing kids and providing little to no education. Also, most of the diagnoses that exist today did not exist then. That doesn’t mean that the conditions didn’t exist but that we wrote them off as kids being stupid or low IQ, for LDs, class clowns or very active kids, for ADHD, and kids with Autism and the like probably never even made it into school.

Today there is a requirement to educate everyone. That includes providing school for kids who are low IQ and not able to learn. There are classrooms at every school for kids who will not learn to read or do math. Normally these classrooms are self contained and the kids are not destructive. They are kids and they are hopefully developing social skills and learning some skills that will help them live their lives as adults.

Kids with LDs and no behavioral issues can be helped with reading and math interventions but many times the schools do a crap job with that. There are not enough educators with the necessary training to help the non-violent kids who need specialized instruction, like OG for reading or scribing for dysgraphia. Friends with kids who have IEPs for LDs regularly tell stories of basic accommodations being ignored.

Toss in kids with emotional dysregulation due to a mental health issue or ADHD or Autism or Sensory issues and you are dealing with kids who cannot control their emotions for a wide variety of reasons. We have a good number of Teachers who are not trained in how to work with kids like this. Because of past issues with abuse, laws have changed that prevent Teachers or Staff from physically restraining kids or moving kids from the room, which is why rooms are evacuated and kids are left to destroy things.

In the past we labeled kids and just brushed them to the side. Today we realize that many of the kids with disabilities can be educated and can become productive adults. If we provide the kids with the proper supports and help, we can decrease the number of adults in jail or receiving assistance from the government. It should be less expensive to society to help kids with disabilities. The problem is that we do not fund the programs properly. We don’t pay the Teachers in these much harder and challenging positions enough to entice people to those positions. We don’t have the specialized schools and rooms available to be able to help the kids who need the help. We are relying on Teachers without the proper training to educate these kids and they simply do not have the resources or education to do so.

Federal law requires we educate all kids but doesn’t provide the funding that is needed to actually achieve this goal. Poor families with limited education don’t realize what services their kids should receive. Well off families with more moderate issues, like LDs and ADHD, maybe Autism 1, can afford, or at least make it work, the specialized schools to help their kids. Well off families with kids with more serious issues know that there are not specialized schools for their kids and know that the only route for them is the Public School system. They can afford the lawyers and advocates to get their kids IEPs with expensive accommodations, which the Federal Government has mandated be provided.

We have a crappy situation that is caused by an unfunded mandate by the Federal Government, with good intentions, that has left local Public Schools unable to meet the needs of a small percentage of kids that leads to the rare event of kids throwing chairs and being violent in a Gen Ed classroom. It scares the crap out of the parents of the kids in the class, for good reason. It is complicated and sad for all.

You aren’t wrong. But there are far far too many kids with this now diagnosed “special needs” for the public school system to handle. Public schools should be responsible for providing a baseline education for all. But if you have a child that requires
1:1 care, special tutoring, emotional support, etc. that should not and cannot be the schools burden. That should be coordinated by the parents with the child’s doctors and mental health care provider through the parent’s insurance. Your kid needs a 1:1 aide to stay in class without violence? The parent works with their heathcare team to find one and then sends them to school with their child. There are too many kids that need special accommodations for schools to be expected to handle it- they can’t do it while still meeting the needs of all the other average kids. Why has this burden fallen on schools? They aren’t psych wards.

Baseline education. So that means get rid of gifted & talented, AP classes, magnet schools, sports teams, especially those that limit participants?

You are being argumentative. Let schools focus on education and school-related programs.

So you want schools to provide more than a baseline education?

Education and not medical care. To non-violent, non-disruptive children.

Ew. Education isn’t just for “good little boys and girls. Here is a quote you may remember from the olden days: Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!

It is a very low bar to ask for non-violent, non-disruptive kids. These kids should get the therapy they need instead of being set up to fail in school.

Kids can need more than one thing at the same time, you idiot.

You need some common sense and some empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we got rid of caning naughty kids at school because we didn’t want violence in our schools, no kid should be touched by someone else since you don’t have the right, etc.

But now things have swung wildly in the opposite direction where it’s not the naughty kids being hit but it’s the naughty kids doing the hitting and it’s the innocent well behaved kids suffering and somehow that’s all legal and only a few people have a problem with it.

It sounds insane to me. I’d rather go back to the first model.

ADHD and autism weren’t widely diagnosed like now. That seems to compromise vast majority what special needs kids are diagnosed with as their disability. The chair thrower used to just be the naughty kid that isn’t allowed back in school until he can behave. Now the chair thrower gets diagnosed with ADHD and the school is forced to deal with him and provide a 1:1 aide. Neither is the correct move

When I was in elementary, the chair thrower was forcibly removed from the classroom and taken to the principals office to throw his tantrums.

Yes, I think that's one correct step - remove the violent child, NOT the other kids. Make it very obvious to the rest of the class that they are always safe and protected from the violent kid. Don't make kids evacuate the classroom.

Beyond that, I don't know.