Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

That would surprise me. Longfellow is one of the center schools in FCPS where not getting into TJ frequently means private for high school.

No it doesn’t. The people trying to get into TJ are not the same people who would go private. There is really very little overlap. Those kids will end up at McLean HS. And they will likely do very well there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

That would surprise me. Longfellow is one of the center schools in FCPS where not getting into TJ frequently means private for high school.

That was more the case when Longfellow still had AAP kids from the Langley pyramid. Those kids go to Cooper now.

That's actually a really good point - although you're still mostly talking about kids from highly-affluent McLean.

One interesting thing I've noted over the years is that even with AAP now present at Cooper, their leadership is very anti-TJ. Does anyone have an idea of why that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Investment has to be made to low income pre - k, elementary and middle schools the the kids there can genuinely compete with privileged peers on merit.

Why can’t FCPS make free high quality TJ test prep mandatory in all of its middle schools. Why can’t all kids in social housing neighbourhoods have a free cram school walking distance from them ?

This will never happen. Generally speaking, a well-educated child requires both a supportive education system as well as a supportive home environment. There are students who do well despite missing one of these conditions but those are the exceptions and not the rule. No amount of money we throw into schools and other support will make up for a home environment that is not focused on the child's education. In this regard, we as a society should focus far more on fighting against the things that are destroying the nuclear family unit, which is by far the most successful at providing a supportive family environment to a child's education. This means criminal justice reform and celebrating stable dual-parent culture (any sex/gender).

So in the years where 1% of TJ was black the thousands of other black family in the area don’t support education at home? That’s baloney.

You are drawing false conclusions and then calling that baloney yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

That would surprise me. Longfellow is one of the center schools in FCPS where not getting into TJ frequently means private for high school.

No it doesn’t. The people trying to get into TJ are not the same people who would go private. There is really very little overlap. Those kids will end up at McLean HS. And they will likely do very well there.

Not true. Many of those kids apply to Potomac, Georgetown Day, Basis, and others as a backup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

+100

Parents need to start pushing NOW to get advanced math and science classes at Langley. There are now many students who will have nothing **challenging** to take senior year and possibly junior year. Langley only has one class after AP CS and there are many freshman who will not have any CS options after sophomore year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

That would surprise me. Longfellow is one of the center schools in FCPS where not getting into TJ frequently means private for high school.

No it doesn’t. The people trying to get into TJ are not the same people who would go private. There is really very little overlap. Those kids will end up at McLean HS. And they will likely do very well there.

Not true. Many of those kids apply to Potomac, Georgetown Day, Basis, and others as a backup.

LOL. I don't know about other schools but Potomac is more woke than FCPS on this issue. They actively discriminate against Asian students in admissions. It's fine that they do that, they are a private school and people should absolutely have the choice to freely associate with whomever they please. I'm just pointing out that Asians who got squeezed out of TJ would find no sympathy from Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

+100

Parents need to start pushing NOW to get advanced math and science classes at Langley. There are now many students who will have nothing **challenging** to take senior year and possibly junior year. Langley only has one class after AP CS and there are many freshman who will not have any CS options after sophomore year.

....they really don't. Schools make hiring decisions at around this time of year based on the needs of their students and what courses they register for. If they have enough students to justify an additional LinAlg/DiffEQ section, they'll hire for one. Most CS teachers have a solid enough background to offer an elective that goes beyond APCS if there's a significant need for one - and frankly, they'd probably rather teach that material than teach to an AP exam.

Student Services departments are pretty good about these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

That would surprise me. Longfellow is one of the center schools in FCPS where not getting into TJ frequently means private for high school.

No it doesn’t. The people trying to get into TJ are not the same people who would go private. There is really very little overlap. Those kids will end up at McLean HS. And they will likely do very well there.

Not true. Many of those kids apply to Potomac, Georgetown Day, Basis, and others as a backup.

LOL. I don't know about other schools but Potomac is more woke than FCPS on this issue. They actively discriminate against Asian students in admissions. It's fine that they do that, they are a private school and people should absolutely have the choice to freely associate with whomever they please. I'm just pointing out that Asians who got squeezed out of TJ would find no sympathy from Potomac.

Sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Investment has to be made to low income pre - k, elementary and middle schools the the kids there can genuinely compete with privileged peers on merit.

Why can’t FCPS make free high quality TJ test prep mandatory in all of its middle schools. Why can’t all kids in social housing neighbourhoods have a free cram school walking distance from them ?

This will never happen. Generally speaking, a well-educated child requires both a supportive education system as well as a supportive home environment. There are students who do well despite missing one of these conditions but those are the exceptions and not the rule. No amount of money we throw into schools and other support will make up for a home environment that is not focused on the child's education. In this regard, we as a society should focus far more on fighting against the things that are destroying the nuclear family unit, which is by far the most successful at providing a supportive family environment to a child's education. This means criminal justice reform and celebrating stable dual-parent culture (any sex/gender).

So in the years where 1% of TJ was black the thousands of other black family in the area don’t support education at home? That’s baloney.

You are drawing false conclusions and then calling that baloney yourself?

What false conclusion ? Let me highlight the relevant argument

Generally speaking, a well-educated child requires both a supportive education system as well as a supportive home environment.

If well-educated means admittance to TJ then this argument concludes that that vast majority of black families don’t care about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

+100

Parents need to start pushing NOW to get advanced math and science classes at Langley. There are now many students who will have nothing **challenging** to take senior year and possibly junior year. Langley only has one class after AP CS and there are many freshman who will not have any CS options after sophomore year.

....they really don't. Schools make hiring decisions at around this time of year based on the needs of their students and what courses they register for. If they have enough students to justify an additional LinAlg/DiffEQ section, they'll hire for one. Most CS teachers have a solid enough background to offer an elective that goes beyond APCS if there's a significant need for one - and frankly, they'd probably rather teach that material than teach to an AP exam.

Student Services departments are pretty good about these things.

The point is not whether they have enough students to justify additional sections of LinAlg/DiffEQ. In order to sell the change, the School Board should have announced funding for additional STEM classes for all high schools that were impacted by the TJ policy change. It does not matter if the sections were undersubscribed. That is the price you pay for implementing change at TJ.

In 3 years time if the classes were undersubscribed then just drop them. If they become popular then it is a win-win for all. in this way, the "deserving students" who were excluded from TJ due to the 1.5% ceiling will have something richer to focus on at their home school. All this would cost $2-4M but all for a good cause.

Tholen could have pushed hard for something like this. She was in drunken stupor from her overdose of the social justice elixir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

+100

Parents need to start pushing NOW to get advanced math and science classes at Langley. There are now many students who will have nothing **challenging** to take senior year and possibly junior year. Langley only has one class after AP CS and there are many freshman who will not have any CS options after sophomore year.

....they really don't. Schools make hiring decisions at around this time of year based on the needs of their students and what courses they register for. If they have enough students to justify an additional LinAlg/DiffEQ section, they'll hire for one. Most CS teachers have a solid enough background to offer an elective that goes beyond APCS if there's a significant need for one - and frankly, they'd probably rather teach that material than teach to an AP exam.

Student Services departments are pretty good about these things.

The point is not whether they have enough students to justify additional sections of LinAlg/DiffEQ. In order to sell the change, the School Board should have announced funding for additional STEM classes for all high schools that were impacted by the TJ policy change. It does not matter if the sections were undersubscribed. That is the price you pay for implementing change at TJ.

In 3 years time if the classes were undersubscribed then just drop them. If they become popular then it is a win-win for all. in this way, the "deserving students" who were excluded from TJ due to the 1.5% ceiling will have something richer to focus on at their home school. All this would cost $2-4M but all for a good cause.

Tholen could have pushed hard for something like this. She was in drunken stupor from her overdose of the social justice elixir.

That's a pretty good idea, but do you genuinely think that announcing such funding would have been enough to sell folks on the admissions proposal? I'm asking seriously, not rhetorically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Investment has to be made to low income pre - k, elementary and middle schools the the kids there can genuinely compete with privileged peers on merit.

Why can’t FCPS make free high quality TJ test prep mandatory in all of its middle schools. Why can’t all kids in social housing neighbourhoods have a free cram school walking distance from them ?

Because the true intention of the liberals is not about education. Their true intention is identity politics. Always has been and always will be.

I thought liberal elites were all so educated, woke and all about educating the conservative deplorable uneducated hicks in flyover states. Now the deplorable hicks are all about education????

No, the GOP elites are using education as a wedge issue to garner votes. They DGAF about education/students. They want to destroy public education and are driving division to tear it all down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Investment has to be made to low income pre - k, elementary and middle schools the the kids there can genuinely compete with privileged peers on merit.

Why can’t FCPS make free high quality TJ test prep mandatory in all of its middle schools. Why can’t all kids in social housing neighbourhoods have a free cram school walking distance from them ?

This will never happen. Generally speaking, a well-educated child requires both a supportive education system as well as a supportive home environment. There are students who do well despite missing one of these conditions but those are the exceptions and not the rule. No amount of money we throw into schools and other support will make up for a home environment that is not focused on the child's education. In this regard, we as a society should focus far more on fighting against the things that are destroying the nuclear family unit, which is by far the most successful at providing a supportive family environment to a child's education. This means criminal justice reform and celebrating stable dual-parent culture (any sex/gender).

So in the years where 1% of TJ was black the thousands of other black family in the area don’t support education at home? That’s baloney.

+1000. It is possible - and many would argue preferable - for a family to be 100% supportive of education in the home environment without spending thousands of dollars in an attempt to optimize a student's candidacy for an admissions process.

It's wild to me that some can claim anti-Asian racism in one breath and then in the next pretend that they know that 99% of Black families care only about shoes and sports - and that somehow THAT isn't racist.

x1 billion