Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes
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Anonymous
Can you find where I said illiterate Muslims may not be devout Muslims? Literacy does not preclude faith or iman. Islam is a belief system and adherence to proper conduct. If one lives thousands of miles from the local literacy teacher, would Islam say that person may not love Allah/God? What if a person lives in poverty and there are no schools where they live, does that mean Allah/God rejects their devotion? Of course not! It is understood that the Muslim must try hard to learn to read Quranic Arabic, but if extenuating circumstances can not permit it, Allah/God is merciful. |
Anonymous
| Oops. "Illiteracy." |
Anonymous
You do know a lot of Arabic words though because they are used extensively in Farsi. According to something I found on the internet just now (sorry can't do better at this hour), over 50% of the words used in 14th century Sufi verse are Arabic loan words. For the fiction of Bozorg Alavi, who wrote in the 1950's, it is over 45%. This same article estimates that 8,000 of the 20,000 words, or 40%, of an everyday literary vocabulary are Arabic loan words. |
Anonymous
Before we engage on this subject of hadith, please find where I said "All hadith is trash." It is believed Islam came to the region where it was needed most. Its okay if you don't believe. I think everybody got that by now. 
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Anonymous
Hmmmm...I learned the meaning of some suras as a child. My siblings and parents did also. My nephew attends a full time Islamic school here and he is learning the meaning of some suras also. So why do you want me to lie to you? |
Anonymous
My former imam in the Seattle area was Indonesian. There is a fairly large Indonesian population there and they had their own islamic school. The children were taught Quranic Arabic. Meanings of some suras were taught. If I recall, he learned to read in Indonesia and they learned Quranic Arabic too. |
Anonymous
Large percentage of Farsi are Arabic words? No. My DH is Iranian. He said not true. Some words. Not a lot. |
Anonymous
We were talking about calling scholars. Scholars are not likely to practice Islam in countries where law contradicts the Quran and justifies it as Islamic. Hamza Yusuf Hanson did not speak any Arabic. I assume he wanted to learn Arabic from someone living there, and wanted easier access to historical data and information. |
Anonymous
Here is the article I used citing 40% of everyday literary words in Farsi are Arabic loan words. it is from the University of Chicago. http://nelc.uchicago.edu/sites/nelc.uchicago.edu/files/Perry2002%20ArabElements-EIr.pdf |
Anonymous
What does the bolded part mean? It implies that to be a scholar of Islam you must practice Islam. I am Catholic and fully accept scholars of Catholicism do not necessarily need to be practicing Catholics or even Catholic. The quality of their scholarship is what matters, not their personal faith. Also, there is some picking and choosing here: True Islamic scholars can only be in countries where the law doesn't contradict the Quran. If they are in other countries they are not true scholars. Does US law contradict the Quran? Many would say yes. Does that make Islamic scholars here not truly scholars? What countries do you believe have laws that don't contradict the Quran? In many Arab countries only civil status laws are based on the Quran. Does the fact that the other laws are not based on the Quran make them countries where a true Islamic scholar would not practice? |
Anonymous
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Not going to start 50 more pages on yet another tangent. However, I knew you'd ask this!
I do not think that to be a scholar, one needs to live in an islamic state where law does not contradict the Quran. The Sharia may be inaccurate but the scholar himself might not have had a hand in creating it. Do you think Islam would reject a scholar despite the fact that he had no say in creating an erroneous Sharia? Of course not. So that should answer your question about scholars in the US too. |
Anonymous
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To avoid confusion-
Scholars should be honest if the sharia of their country contradict the Quran. |
Anonymous
It's not about me caring to learn. It's about there being nothing to learn beyond what you can see. Islam is like any other religion. It has lovely bits and less than lovely bits. As a Muslim, you are required to see it all as lovely, and the institution of scholars is there to support you in this belief. You, as a Muslim, are under obligation to see it as perfect, and assume that good explanations exist for the unlovely bits. I, luckily for me, am not. Unlike you, I am under no obligation to see it as lovely, or assume that good reasons exists for what seems unlovely. So when I read something that appears on its face unfair, ugly, or cruel, then unlike you, I am free to accept that it really IS unfair, ugly and cruel, and no scholar in the world can spin it to make it look like roses. I'm sure scholars would show me proof of Islam's mercy - but they would, wouldn't they? They are not motivated by objectivity. They are motivated by the desire to cast the religion in the best possible light. That's the job. If you spoke to actual historians, they would show you proof of Islam's mercy as well as Islam's cruelty. Islam is like any other religion, and Muslims are like any other people. They and their religion don't have any particular claim to moral perfection. If you love things about it, that's great, as a Muslim I'm sure it comes handy for you. But that's just you. If other people don't see the beauty in it, it's not because they aren't willing to learn. It's because to them, it simply is not beautiful, and no amount of scholarly airtime will make it so. |
Anonymous
Laws of every single country contradict the Quran. So you've just basically discounted every single country and scholar in the world because no country's laws match the Quran exactly. Yusuf didn't go to the Arabs to learn Arabic. He went to them to learn his Islam. So to me, it's exquisitely ironic that you discount Arab country scholars as biased when your own favorite boy had to go to them to learn his religion. |
Anonymous
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Here is from our good friend Wikipedia:
"Soon after converting, Yusuf moved to England, Spain, and eventually Al Ain in the United Arab Emirates to pursue serious study of Islam.[21] There he primarily studied Arabic and also served as a muezzin of a local mosque. There he was introduced to Mauritanian scholars and began more serious study of various Islamic disciplines including Maliki fiqh. This eventually led him to travel to Mauritania itself in order to study directly with the renowned scholar and sage of the land, Sidi Muhammad ould Fahfu al-Massumi, more famously known as Murabit al-Hajj.[22] During his intermittent stays there, Yusuf both lived and studied directly with Murabit al-Hajj.[23] I think it's deliciously, exquisitely ironic that you discounted all old-country scholars as influenced by culture, and yet your darling Yusuf had to go to Mauritania - the only country in the world where slavery is practiced more or less openly - to study Islam in more depth. Funny, innit? |