Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course I apologized to you and all nonMuslim women. If you did not understand that, here's clarification- I am sorry for saying that. I lost my cool after seeing very unreasonable arguments and mocking of Islam. For ex, the most recent mockery was when you spoke of the radio station caller who asked an imam if its ok for her to undress when she thought jinn may be in the room. I have a Doctorate degree and worked in IT and law before retirement. If I heard the same caller, I would not have thought to mock her, but would realize she simply needs help in understanding the concept of intent in Islam. You chose to mock her. You like to point out your exceptional intelligence, but exceptionally intelligent people know less intelligent people should not be mocked. Their lack of intelligence may be due to genetic factors, culture, upbringing, and why on earth would anyone hold them accountable for that which they can not control? It's a mean girl tactic and shows your character. Another example is how differently you and I handle curiosity about different faiths. I read the Bible and then sought two knowledgeable priests to better understand Christianity. You, on the other hand, refuse to seek a scholar or learn Quranic Arabic to clarify your own misunderstanding about Islam. Instead, you spout off on DCUM falsities offending the religion of 1.6 billion people. Again, it shows Jeff and Muslima were correct about you all along, you had an agenda.

So I do apologize for my comment about nonMuslim women. I do. But if your motivation is to understand real Islam, you would engage in the serious study of it the right way.

I don't need to seek a scholar because I don't have any misunderstandings about Islam. The fact that I disagree with your claims on what Islam commands doesn't mean I misunderstand it. The fact that you call them misunderstandings means nothing to me. What could possibly make you an arbiter of the right ways to study Islam? Islam wasn't meant to require squadrons of scholars.

The majority of Muslims don't understand Quranic Arabic. Go pick on them.

You weren't actually able to find factual counterarguments to what I posted. You just got mad. It was fun to watch.

Ahhhh, more mockery. Your misunderstanding is based on an inability to read the Quran and lack of understanding of historical context. You will never know this until you speak with a scholar. Members of DCUM who are Muslim know enough to have faith. You need logic and an understanding of Quranic Arabic and history. You'll never know what you don't know without speaking to a true expert.

I am curious: are you at all aware of the fact that not one - NOT ONE - poster reading you has been swayed by your arguments in the slightest? I get that by now you are immersed in a personal conflict with another poster, but does it all register with you that your postings on the joys of Islam have not impressed even one person?

But see, this is the point. Muslims are not worried about impressing or persuading. Its the outright false statements that disturb us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But see, this is the point. Muslims are not worried about impressing or persuading. Its the outright false statements that disturb us.

That's the thing, though. You weren't able to point out anything false in what they posted. You were just mad they posted it. What I mean is your rebuttals to these allegedly false statements - with all their passion and references - did not sway anyone. Shouldn't that make you think a bit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This doesn't even make sense to me. I lost my cool with the posters who vilified Islam. I'm not beyond admitting that. I know an executive at CAIR and have no qualms about showing her the entire thread. No fears at all. But I think they can call other organizations who may help Muslims here using the media.

Just curious: when you show that thread to the much-feared (not) CAIR executive, are you going to highlight multiple posts where you hurled rich and varied personal insults at those who disagreed with you, and say that it was you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course I apologized to you and all nonMuslim women. If you did not understand that, here's clarification- I am sorry for saying that. I lost my cool after seeing very unreasonable arguments and mocking of Islam. For ex, the most recent mockery was when you spoke of the radio station caller who asked an imam if its ok for her to undress when she thought jinn may be in the room. I have a Doctorate degree and worked in IT and law before retirement. If I heard the same caller, I would not have thought to mock her, but would realize she simply needs help in understanding the concept of intent in Islam. You chose to mock her. You like to point out your exceptional intelligence, but exceptionally intelligent people know less intelligent people should not be mocked. Their lack of intelligence may be due to genetic factors, culture, upbringing, and why on earth would anyone hold them accountable for that which they can not control? It's a mean girl tactic and shows your character. Another example is how differently you and I handle curiosity about different faiths. I read the Bible and then sought two knowledgeable priests to better understand Christianity. You, on the other hand, refuse to seek a scholar or learn Quranic Arabic to clarify your own misunderstanding about Islam. Instead, you spout off on DCUM falsities offending the religion of 1.6 billion people. Again, it shows Jeff and Muslima were correct about you all along, you had an agenda.

So I do apologize for my comment about nonMuslim women. I do. But if your motivation is to understand real Islam, you would engage in the serious study of it the right way.

So you are RETIRED (i.e. up there in age) and still use language like that?

See, this is yet another example of poor thinking skills. You just made an erroneous assumption, that retirement is only available for older folks. Not in my field, it isn't. I retired because I do not need to work for income.

Actually, looking at your STD and grandma in miniskirt jabs, I thought you were in your twenties, max. That's the language one finds on ummah.com, the refuge of underage British Pakistani tenement dwellers. I'm surprised you have a PhD, and clearly aren't in your twenties, and still talk like that.

If you wish to believe that, it's fine. I am not responsible for how you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You're confusing me with your nemesis. Yes, we know that:
1. One poster several threads ago called Mohammed a pedophile. That was wrong, and I too am glad that nobody has insulted him in the last several weeks.
2. Someone, not me but maybe your nemesis, referred to the djinn in the bathroom. You're taking that out of context. As I recall, that was in the context of whether Islam is really monotheistic, if little semi-divine creatures like djinn exist in our lives.

Otherwise, I can't recall other examples that might be taken as "mocking Islam." Please provide additional examples. I agree that a TON of posts criticized you and Muslima for various shady debating techniques you used. I hope you can see the difference here.

If it's "mocking Islam" to point out that your bald statements like "Islam gives equality to women" need to be clarified with detail on women's unequal inheritance, divorce and witness rights, then you have much bigger problems. If it's "mocking Islam" to point out that your statement that "Islam gives women divorce rights" needs to be clarified with detail on how men have free and easy divorce rights compared to women (who have limited divorce rights, only get alimony for three months, and lose their children if they remarry), then you have much bigger problems. If asking you to prove your assertion that converts are growing faster than immigrants is tantamount to "mocking Islam," then you have much bigger problems. I can go back and find where you made each one of these misleading assertions. Why don't you show us how clarifying all the things you "neglected" to mention in connection with your assertions is tantamount to "mocking Islam."

Actually I think its time for others to get involved now. I will let Islamic interfaith, Islamic relations, and anti-defamation groups get involved at this point. It is useless cycling old points.

Again, involved on what grounds? What grounds? That one person called Mohammed a pedophile several weeks ago? That a PP mocked Islamic scholars (contrary to your assertion that PP was mocking a particular Muslim woman) in one particular instance? You've been asked to point to examples of endemic mockery. You haven't done so. Y

You're just browned off that nobody is swallowing your platitudes whole. But since you've been roundly criticized for things like your STD jab, now you're going with empty threats.

You don't need to concern yourself about it.

Huh? I asked you for proof that posters are "mocking Islam." You haven't provided this proof. You really do seem angry that posters find you unpersuasive and untrustworthy. I agree that posters have mocked you personally, so you're now resorting to empty threats. I'm sure CAIR is soooooo eager to get involved in your personal cat fights.

Fine. Think what you like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually I think its time for others to get involved now. I will let Islamic interfaith, Islamic relations, and anti-defamation groups get involved at this point. It is useless cycling old points.

No group is going to get involved with this. You're deluding yourself.

Why even speculate then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But see, this is the point. Muslims are not worried about impressing or persuading. Its the outright false statements that disturb us.

That's the thing, though. You weren't able to point out anything false in what they posted. You were just mad they posted it. What I mean is your rebuttals to these allegedly false statements - with all their passion and references - did not sway anyone. Shouldn't that make you think a bit?

+1. Muslim PP is mad that people provided more detail and nuance to her statements about "Islam treats women captives well" and "Islam gives divorce rights to women" and "Islam gives equal rights to women" (all of which, to me, reeked of a conversion effort because of the patent oversimplifying).

Apparently she didn't expect that DCUM readers would know enough to clarify her statements. She couldn't say the clarifications were untrue, so she started calling everybody Islamophobes and miniskirt-wearing grannies with STDs.

Note to Muslim PP: in the future, don't underestimate your audience. If you want to start a conversation - and you were the one who started almost all of these little discussions - make sure in advance that you're ready to handle the tough questions.

[Anonymous]

I am sure there are several Ku Klux Klan members on DCUM too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Actually I think its time for others to get involved now. I will let Islamic interfaith, Islamic relations, and anti-defamation groups get involved at this point. It is useless cycling old points.

Again, involved on what grounds? What grounds? That one person called Mohammed a pedophile several weeks ago? That a PP mocked Islamic scholars (contrary to your assertion jthat PP was mocking a particular Muslim woman) in one particular instance? You've been asked to point to examples of endemic mockery. You haven't done so. Y

You're just browned off that nobody is swallowing your platitudes whole. But since you've been roundly criticized for things like your STD jab, now you're going with empty threats.

You don't need to concern yourself about it.

Huh? I asked you for proof that posters are "mocking Islam." You haven't provided this proof. You really do seem angry that posters find you unpersuasive and untrustworthy. I agree that posters have mocked you personally, so you're now resorting to empty threats. I'm sure CAIR is soooooo eager to get involved in your personal cat fights.

Fine. Think what you like.

You should definitely call up CAIR and tell them you started multiple cat fights with other DCUM posters on various aspects of Islam, but now you need Momma CAIR to come in and save you from the fights you provoked.

Then come back and tell us how that went over with CAIR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But see, this is the point. Muslims are not worried about impressing or persuading. Its the outright false statements that disturb us.

That's the thing, though. You weren't able to point out anything false in what they posted. You were just mad they posted it. What I mean is your rebuttals to these allegedly false statements - with all their passion and references - did not sway anyone. Shouldn't that make you think a bit?

+1. Muslim PP is mad that people provided more detail and nuance to her statements about "Islam treats women captives well" and "Islam gives divorce rights to women" and "Islam gives equal rights to women" (all of which, to me, reeked of a conversion effort because of the patent oversimplifying).

Apparently she didn't expect that DCUM readers would know enough to clarify her statements. She couldn't say the clarifications were untrue, so she started calling everybody Islamophobes and miniskirt-wearing grannies with STDs.

Note to Muslim PP: in the future, don't underestimate your audience. If you want to start a conversation - and you were the one who started almost all of these little discussions - make sure in advance that you're ready to handle the tough questions.

Yes, they are at least three of us non-Muslim posters. And all of us clearly have a good knowledge of Islam and the Arab world, where we evidently have spent a good deal of time. At least two of us are married to Arabs, one a Muslim. At least one of us has read parts of the Quran and some Hadith in the original Arabic. But the Muslim posters insist on lumping us in with the 99.9% of Americans who know almost nothing about Islam except what they might see on the news. They seem angered when we can trot out our knowledge of Islam and Islamic history to contradict their statements.

I do think the Muslim posters have a huge aversion to having Islam's dirty laundry aired in public. But that doesn't strengthen their case, it weakens it. Who would find more persuasive: The Catholic who minimizes an defends the Church's past treatment of pedophile priests or the Catholic who is outraged by it as a betrayal of the faith?

Personally, I am sympathetic to Islam, but will admit to being the PP who decries how far Islamic scholarship has fallen from Islam's glory days over a thousand years ago. For some reason, this makes me an Islamaphobe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure there are several Ku Klux Klan members on DCUM too.

Oh wait, are you calling us Klan members now?

[Anonymous]

I am done here. Everything that can be said has been said. Good day!

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you wanna believe women can give birth without men, then believing they give birth to children of god ain't too much of a stretch.

Might not be for you, if in "your" world, men, women, gods, all the same, no difference! But hey since the beginning of time, animals have not given birth to humans, or humans to animals, see nature likes to keep it within species, but hey that's where Faith comes in. To each, their own~

Faith is cool. Believe what you like. Just don't try to sell it as fact.

I think religious statements are factual to those who believe in them. I don't believe in selling beliefs/religion, or anything else for that matter ( I don't like salespeople). Not all facts are scientific facts, the claim that I am typing this now, unseen by anyone, will occur in no scientific paper, but it is a hard fact

Now this makes perfect sense for a Muslim. And it correlates with how, generally, Muslims treat others. If you don't believe in what I believe, you are ignorant and unable to understand facts.

My religion is what I believe, and what I believe is fact. So I say.

[Anonymous]

Awww, PP, this thread had ended with post #911. Why'd you have to go and ruin it?

[Anonymous]

Exactly.