Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes
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Anonymous
Did you learn the meaning, or did you learn the 7th century Arabic in which they were written? Would you have been able to translate it word for word? When you were taught the meaning of some suras as a child, did it move you closer to the linguistic command of 7th century Arabic? Yes? No? You aren't lying when they said you and your nephews learned the meaning of some suras. You were lying when you implied that kind of learning is the same as learning the Quranic Arabic - as in, learning the language, not learning to recite it. |
Anonymous
It actually isn't. It's just Arabs trying to be special again. |
Anonymous
I think you - or whoever it was, because this is an anonymous board - are well on record discounting shariah and hadith as valid sources of Islamic faith. It should be noted that this belief places you firmly outside of the Islamic mainstream, too. But of course, there's always the secret collection KSA. Wonder what they are waiting for? |
Anonymous
Where are you getting this from? Just your opinion? |
Anonymous
I discounted and said ALL hadith are trash? Please show where I said that then. Should be easy enough if I am well on record. Here is what I did say: That hadith ate not infallible because they are not the word of God. This does not equate to saying ALL hadith are discounted or trash. I said the word of the Quran usurps hadith where they contradict. This does not equate to ALL hadith being discounted or being trash. I said hadith may not be authentic and there is no English set published that is 100% authentic. This does not equate to saying all hadith should be discounted or trash. I am not starting another 50 pages on where this set is. You'll have to do research that spans beyond DCUM or TV shows about Indonesian children ( if you are the same one who said some of your knowledge comes from a TV show). This is why these threads take up 50 pages. Please read carefully. |
Anonymous
You just read two other individuals who also told you they or their spouses were taught the Quran in Quranic Arabic and they also studied the Quran in elementary school. I corroborated these testimonies and explained I learned the Quran in the language it was revealed in. Our sunday school teacher told us the historical context of the suras and translated the suras for us. This happens when children are between 6-12 yrs of age. The Quran used to teach children is not in modern Arabic. Its old Arabic. Children recite it. They memorize it. Then they learn the background story of the sura. And they learn the translation, often from teachers who know Quranic Arabic, every word of it. Children do not memorize the translation word for word. Unnecessary. Prayers are in Quranic Arabic, not translations. Children do not learn the translation of every sura though. How can they when its hundreds of pages long? And they may not be able to explain from the top of their head the translation to the suras they did learn. But they generally know because there are stories associated with some of them. Why dont you call the Saudi Academy or ADAMS to find out what children are learning? They will be honest with you. |
Anonymous
I can recite and sing Vest La Guibba and O Dolce Mani, and know directionally what they are about - does it mean I have a command of Italian? |
Anonymous
My opinion too. What is required of Muslims is practice of the five pillars. You can be a devout and practicing literate (or illiterate) Muslim even if you never cracked open the Quran or learned a single hadith. |
Anonymous
I wonder if you understand that every post of yours on the subject confirms my position, not yours. Children memorize the surahs and learn to recite them, like a collection of sounds in a language they don't know. Then someone tells them what (they think) this chapter is about. But children do not learn the translation of every surah, and they can't explain the translations they did learn. Two questions for you: a. How does this move anyone closer to the command of the Quranic Arabic you said it does? b. How is this different from opera singers delivering arias in languages they don't speak? |
Anonymous
It is true that when taught the Quran in Arabic, the only version of the Quran used is the seventh century version. I think it would be widely held as sacriligious to translate the Quran into more updated Arabic, although foreign language translation are tolerated. I imagine understanding of the New Testament by Christians would go way down if we insisted that it be read only in the original Greek. But there's the problem--we have a book at the center of Islam that cannot be understood even by otherwise literate and educated Arabs without a lot of teaching. This provides ample opportunity for individuals to self-anoint as arbiters of what it actually says, a sort of modern day priesthood who are guardians of the secrets. (And yes I know they are no priests in Islam--please take this metaphorically.) And obviously the more emphasis that is put on the teaching of the Quran, hadith, etc. and the less put on the practice of the five pillars (which require absolutely no special instruction other than in the prayers that can be almost as easily memorized as the basic Christian prayers). And so we get so called Islamic regimes whose first acts inevitably are about the covering up of women and lowering the female age of marriage, instead of about giving generously to the poor and practicing zakat. |
Anonymous
You can call it my opinion backed by 40+ years among Muslims. Arabs, especially Gulf Arabs, as people invest their identities deeply in being the nation that brought forth Islam and Prophet Muhammad. That makes them feel special and superior among other Muslims - a position that is subtly and sometimes not-too-subtly reinforced by the Islamic establishment. That being Arab is special, and that Arabic is a special language is a very deeply held article of faith among them. While not acknowledged in public (and while in direct contradiction to the Quran and records of Muhammad), Arabs feel they are superior Muslims and human beings over Pakistanis, Indonesians, Malaysians, god forbid Africans, and don't even mention the Iranians, just because they are Arabs, and just by virtue of their birth have a stronger claim to Islam than anyone else, and are therefore a higher brand of humans, because "you can't really know Islam and Quran without learning Arabic". This is why an Arab can be friends with a Pakistani, but a thought of his sister marrying a Pakistani will make him apoplectic because "Arabs are wife takers, not wife givers". Arabs use it to blank out the fact that post the Andalus era, Arabs and specifically Gulf Arabs as a group of people and countries have contributed precious little to the coffers of world civilization - not in science, not in literature, not in music, not in art, not in politics, not in technology - but gosh darn it, we are Arabs who gave the world Islam and hold the key to its meaning, not available in any other form, and we are (still) special. Is this racist? Of course. Does this have anything to do with what the Quran says? Absolutely not. Muhammad's last sermon specifically said black and white, Arab and non-Arab is the same. But culture influences practice, it certainly influences scholars and lawmakers, and it most certainly shapes public discourse. The Islamic discourse and mainstream Sunni Muslim scholarship is driven - and funded - by this culture. If you are from that environment, you will deny this but secretly you will know that this is true. |
Anonymous
Of course. Who denied it that necessitated further discussion? |
Anonymous
The statement bolded above. |
Anonymous
+1 There is much truth to this. And this view has become contagious in that it's spread north in the Arab world and is indirectly responsible for groups like ISIS. I will say I do find all of this a great shame. I grew up in a Gulf country before the surge of money and was deeply impressed by the devout adherence to prayer--I recall lone trucks pulled off otherwise empty roads with the driver praying beside it surrounded by a vast desert. Yes, the strict adherence was probably driven by Wahhabism, but it was practiced out of deep personal piety (no one would know if the driver had prayed or not) and there was no arrogance associated with it. |
Anonymous
You woefully misunderstand Islam. I say this with sincerity. You should learn Quranic Arabic yourself and the tafsir. Otherwise your opinion may as well be based on a TV show or uneducated opinions. Truly. Learn it yourself. You can call any mosque and they will tell you where you can take classes for adults. You do not need to be a Muslim to take such classes! The covering of the hair or body is mentioned in the Quran in the context of modesty as khumr, such as women who would go to the well to get water and would allow their cleavage to be visible. Allah/God asked them to cover their bodies. The reason so much emphasis is placed on covering is because of this and cultural reasons. |