Daughter got into her reach school, but wants to go to the safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. I had to choose between Hopkins and Harvard for my PhD. My richer friends, who traveled in high social circles, absolutely could not understand how anyone could consider turning down Harvard. They told me, "it will open doors the rest of your life." I visited both schools, meeting with faculty and students. I learned that Hopkins was much more well regarded, in my particular field. They had established it and ran circles around Harvard when it came to research funding (again, in the field I wanted to enter). I was grateful to the doctoral students who lunched with me at Harvard. I remember one saying, "This place looks better the further away from it that you are." Hopkins had more courses relevant to my field of interest. As the answer of which program was superior became clearer and clearer, I realized that some proportion of the people who chose to attend and teach at Harvard did so simply so they could put it on their resume. Those people are not my people.

Different poster. This is not the sort of choice people are talking about. Harvard and Hopkins are both excellent schools, and neither would be anyone's safety. Furthermore, it makes sense to choose the school that offers a stronger program in your field, if you know what that is before matriculating. I read OP's question as more like choosing between Harvard and, say, UMD.

NP. Or, say, Wake Forest and Baylor. Or Tufts and Michigan State. Who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with all the PPs. It depends on the disparity between the reach and safety schools, but going to a well-regarded school can confer benefits for a long time. For first job, grad school admissions, how good of grades you need to be a "good candidate" for whatever's next, etc.

Make sure she's certain about this and understands the ramifications of her choice, not just how fun the next 4 yrs will be.

Unpopular opinion I know!

I know you mean well, and believe what you are saying. But many others of us don't think such "connections" or "status signals" are necessary for success.

For others, that sounds blasphemous. It may depend upon where you look for validation, and how you define success.

Easier acceptance into grad school or getting pushed to the top of a pile of resumes is neither “connections” or “status signals.” I’m sure you mean well, but you seem to be missing the point.

Not really. I had to choose between Hopkins and Harvard for my PhD. My richer friends, who traveled in high social circles, absolutely could not understand how anyone could consider turning down Harvard. They told me, "it will open doors the rest of your life." I visited both schools, meeting with faculty and students. I learned that Hopkins was much more well regarded, in my particular field. They had established it and ran circles around Harvard when it came to research funding (again, in the field I wanted to enter). I was grateful to the doctoral students who lunched with me at Harvard. I remember one saying, "This place looks better the further away from it that you are." Hopkins had more courses relevant to my field of interest. As the answer of which program was superior became clearer and clearer, I realized that some proportion of the people who chose to attend and teach at Harvard did so simply so they could put it on their resume. Those people are not my people.

Different poster. This is not the sort of choice people are talking about. Harvard and Hopkins are both excellent schools, and neither would be anyone's safety. Furthermore, it makes sense to choose the school that offers a stronger program in your field, if you know what that is before matriculating. I read OP's question as more like choosing between Harvard and, say, UMD.

A school like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. are going to be incomparable to any other school, including other top privates like Northwestern, etc.

I saw the OP's post more like a comparison between a private like Vanderbilt versus a large public flagship like UMD.

The choices for a top student at either is not going to be much different, and certainly not worth 4 terribly suited years in Nashville if she does not like the location or fit into the heavily Southern culture of the school.

And beyond that, UMD may provide better STEM options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an adult who did the same as your daughter, "good schools" really don't matter.

She's clearly a smart kid if she got into a reach. She'll make her way in life and likely be successful. But even if she isn't a huge success, who cares? As long as she's happy.

Leave her alone and be proud you raised a kid who is both intelligent and knows how to make choices that are true to herself.

And for what it's worth, I worked in the White House along with all of the Ivy League graduates. Whether or not I went to a state school had nothing to do with it. I got their off of my own hard work.

You don't get to the White House without a hook. I am sorry. Someone pulled for you. (And that's not a bad thing.)

I know everyone in DC wants to believe this because they are spending so much money on expensive private schools, but no actually. My only hook was working incredibly hard and developing a reputation for my work as a result. I don't come from money and I arrived in DC with no professional connections. I've done well because I was very motivated to and it sounds like OPs kid is the same. She'll be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an adult who did the same as your daughter, "good schools" really don't matter.

She's clearly a smart kid if she got into a reach. She'll make her way in life and likely be successful. But even if she isn't a huge success, who cares? As long as she's happy.

Leave her alone and be proud you raised a kid who is both intelligent and knows how to make choices that are true to herself.

And for what it's worth, I worked in the White House along with all of the Ivy League graduates. Whether or not I went to a state school had nothing to do with it. I got their off of my own hard work.

You don't get to the White House without a hook. I am sorry. Someone pulled for you. (And that's not a bad thing.)

I know everyone in DC wants to believe this because they are spending so much money on expensive private schools, but no actually. My only hook was working incredibly hard and developing a reputation for my work as a result. I don't come from money and I arrived in DC with no professional connections. I've done well because I was very motivated to and it sounds like OPs kid is the same. She'll be fine.

You have a very strange bias. Your cohort of Ivy League colleagues also got there without a hook. Doing well at a well known school tends to open a lot of doors. The fact that by your own admission, there were more kids from elite schools just proves that point that the path from certain schools is mire well established, not that no one else ever takes it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with all the PPs. It depends on the disparity between the reach and safety schools, but going to a well-regarded school can confer benefits for a long time. For first job, grad school admissions, how good of grades you need to be a "good candidate" for whatever's next, etc.

Make sure she's certain about this and understands the ramifications of her choice, not just how fun the next 4 yrs will be.

Unpopular opinion I know!

I know you mean well, and believe what you are saying. But many others of us don't think such "connections" or "status signals" are necessary for success.

For others, that sounds blasphemous. It may depend upon where you look for validation, and how you define success.

Easier acceptance into grad school or getting pushed to the top of a pile of resumes is neither “connections” or “status signals.” I’m sure you mean well, but you seem to be missing the point.

Not really. I had to choose between Hopkins and Harvard for my PhD. My richer friends, who traveled in high social circles, absolutely could not understand how anyone could consider turning down Harvard. They told me, "it will open doors the rest of your life." I visited both schools, meeting with faculty and students. I learned that Hopkins was much more well regarded, in my particular field. They had established it and ran circles around Harvard when it came to research funding (again, in the field I wanted to enter). I was grateful to the doctoral students who lunched with me at Harvard. I remember one saying, "This place looks better the further away from it that you are." Hopkins had more courses relevant to my field of interest. As the answer of which program was superior became clearer and clearer, I realized that some proportion of the people who chose to attend and teach at Harvard did so simply so they could put it on their resume. Those people are not my people.

Different poster. This is not the sort of choice people are talking about. Harvard and Hopkins are both excellent schools, and neither would be anyone's safety. Furthermore, it makes sense to choose the school that offers a stronger program in your field, if you know what that is before matriculating. I read OP's question as more like choosing between Harvard and, say, UMD.

A school like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. are going to be incomparable to any other school, including other top privates like Northwestern, etc.

I saw the OP's post more like a comparison between a private like Vanderbilt versus a large public flagship like UMD.

The choices for a top student at either is not going to be much different, and certainly not worth 4 terribly suited years in Nashville if she does not like the location or fit into the heavily Southern culture of the school.

And beyond that, UMD may provide better STEM options.

None of us has a clue. It could be Duke/University of Tampa, or 2 schools of close to similar reputations. All anyone has said is it is something for op to consider discussing with her child if the disparity is large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming your daughter sticks with her safety, please don’t be “that” parent who feels the need to announce on FB that child is going to college X after a tough decision based on additional acceptances to Elite U a, b, and c. Our friends did that last year and it felt like they wanted us all to know that even though their child chose her instate uni, she still was accepted to many “elite” colleges also.

DP. Ha - I wonder if we have the same friends! The person I’m thinking of not only posted all of that on FB, but also sent out an email to tons of people with the same info. It was really beyond embarrassing and we felt so bad for their kid.

I had a friend who did this. I thought it was perfectly fine. She was proud of her DS for getting into some excellent colleges. It's not something I would do, but her DS was a very nice, hardworking young man and I was happy to see that his hard work paid off with him having options.

[Anonymous]

My DC is turning down two Ivies for a full ride and a bunch of other perks at a state school.

After talking with DC, I suspect they actually preferred the state school all along but would have gone to one of the Ivies otherwise just based on rankings. I know that's dumb but it's the world we live in. They also asked me if I was disappointed that they chose the state school, and I feel bad that they worried about that.

We're full pay either way so an additional perk is that DC now has either grad school all paid for or easily over 400k to put down on a house by the time they graduate.

[Anonymous]

I think what all these posters are saying is crazy. Yes it matters where you go to college. And transferring is very difficult. Talk to you daughter. If her reach is not impossible like maybe UChicago she should rethink that easy school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with all the PPs. It depends on the disparity between the reach and safety schools, but going to a well-regarded school can confer benefits for a long time. For first job, grad school admissions, how good of grades you need to be a "good candidate" for whatever's next, etc.

Make sure she's certain about this and understands the ramifications of her choice, not just how fun the next 4 yrs will be.

Unpopular opinion I know!

I know you mean well, and believe what you are saying. But many others of us don't think such "connections" or "status signals" are necessary for success.

For others, that sounds blasphemous. It may depend upon where you look for validation, and how you define success.

Easier acceptance into grad school or getting pushed to the top of a pile of resumes is neither “connections” or “status signals.” I’m sure you mean well, but you seem to be missing the point.

Not really. I had to choose between Hopkins and Harvard for my PhD. My richer friends, who traveled in high social circles, absolutely could not understand how anyone could consider turning down Harvard. They told me, "it will open doors the rest of your life." I visited both schools, meeting with faculty and students. I learned that Hopkins was much more well regarded, in my particular field. They had established it and ran circles around Harvard when it came to research funding (again, in the field I wanted to enter). I was grateful to the doctoral students who lunched with me at Harvard. I remember one saying, "This place looks better the further away from it that you are." Hopkins had more courses relevant to my field of interest. As the answer of which program was superior became clearer and clearer, I realized that some proportion of the people who chose to attend and teach at Harvard did so simply so they could put it on their resume. Those people are not my people.

Sorry, I don't believe this for a second. Your "richer" friends from "high social circles" sound like idiots. Everyone knows that a PhD is a completely different ballgame and no educated person would not understand how someone could turn down Harvard for JH. Everyone knows different schools have different strengths in the post-graduate realm and many, many people turn down Harvard for a highly regarded program somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Most people take a step down (ie lesser school) than a step up (better school) for grad school so don’t be fooled by she can make it up in grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people take a step down (ie lesser school) than a step up (better school) for grad school so don’t be fooled by she can make it up in grad school.

Source? Or did you just make that up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people take a step down (ie lesser school) than a step up (better school) for grad school so don’t be fooled by she can make it up in grad school.

Source? Or did you just make that up?

Use the google function I’m not doing the work for you. I think it was the NYT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an adult who did the same as your daughter, "good schools" really don't matter.

She's clearly a smart kid if she got into a reach. She'll make her way in life and likely be successful. But even if she isn't a huge success, who cares? As long as she's happy.

Leave her alone and be proud you raised a kid who is both intelligent and knows how to make choices that are true to herself.

And for what it's worth, I worked in the White House along with all of the Ivy League graduates. Whether or not I went to a state school had nothing to do with it. I got their off of my own hard work.

You don't get to the White House without a hook. I am sorry. Someone pulled for you. (And that's not a bad thing.)

I know everyone in DC wants to believe this because they are spending so much money on expensive private schools, but no actually. My only hook was working incredibly hard and developing a reputation for my work as a result. I don't come from money and I arrived in DC with no professional connections. I've done well because I was very motivated to and it sounds like OPs kid is the same. She'll be fine.

It depends on ideology too.

The Republican White Houses end up taking a lot more people from Christian schools and people who haven’t excelled academically. The GWB WH was filled with Liberty grads for example. It’s just a function of party dynamics in the US today, where the Democrats represent most college graduates and nearly everyone with an advanced degree.
So it’s just way easier to get into a Republican White House period. A lot of the so-called Republican intellectual class is there on a sort of affirmative action based on their ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people take a step down (ie lesser school) than a step up (better school) for grad school so don’t be fooled by she can make it up in grad school.

Source? Or did you just make that up?

PP made it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with all the PPs. It depends on the disparity between the reach and safety schools, but going to a well-regarded school can confer benefits for a long time. For first job, grad school admissions, how good of grades you need to be a "good candidate" for whatever's next, etc.

Make sure she's certain about this and understands the ramifications of her choice, not just how fun the next 4 yrs will be.

Unpopular opinion I know!

I know you mean well, and believe what you are saying. But many others of us don't think such "connections" or "status signals" are necessary for success.

For others, that sounds blasphemous. It may depend upon where you look for validation, and how you define success.

Easier acceptance into grad school or getting pushed to the top of a pile of resumes is neither “connections” or “status signals.” I’m sure you mean well, but you seem to be missing the point.

Not really. I had to choose between Hopkins and Harvard for my PhD. My richer friends, who traveled in high social circles, absolutely could not understand how anyone could consider turning down Harvard. They told me, "it will open doors the rest of your life." I visited both schools, meeting with faculty and students. I learned that Hopkins was much more well regarded, in my particular field. They had established it and ran circles around Harvard when it came to research funding (again, in the field I wanted to enter). I was grateful to the doctoral students who lunched with me at Harvard. I remember one saying, "This place looks better the further away from it that you are." Hopkins had more courses relevant to my field of interest. As the answer of which program was superior became clearer and clearer, I realized that some proportion of the people who chose to attend and teach at Harvard did so simply so they could put it on their resume. Those people are not my people.

Sorry, I don't believe this for a second. Your "richer" friends from "high social circles" sound like idiots. Everyone knows that a PhD is a completely different ballgame and no educated person would not understand how someone could turn down Harvard for JH. Everyone knows different schools have different strengths in the post-graduate realm and many, many people turn down Harvard for a highly regarded program somewhere else.

Well, if you just refuse to believe what I post, then there really is not much point in continuing our conversation. The story is true. The friend in question was a business man who had never sought a graduate degree, and just thought that having a degree from Harvard was a no brainer. And if you do not think there are many people who believe that, then you have not been paying attention to this forum.