The boys just aren't going to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, women in the work force have been disproportionately impacted by losing their jobs. An interesting contradiction.

Not really. There's good evidence that more boys skip college because they anticipate better job opportunities without a college degree. They don't see the need for college in the same way that young women do.

I'm thinking maybe after decades of women whining about how hard it is as a SAHM, more guys are willing to stay at home to do the "hard work" and let their wives do the 9-5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

See, that's how we got here, and seems it will get much worse (with the above thinking currently prevalent). What the heck's male privilege anyway? Anecdotally at my fortune 500 workplace the majority of senior execs are female and have been so over the last decade. At my top 20 college the STEM program I graduated from is now 'intentionally' held at 50/50 percentage breakdown between men & women with some years favoring more women than men. I've seen the HS credentials of lots of the women being admitted and you can tell they've been systematically exposed to more STEM programs (girls who code, kode with klossy, numerous university sponsored 'women in engineering' programs) burnishing their resumes than the men. Also many more 'math support' groups for young women both in HS and within the colleges. Those programs specifically exclude male students and this is fueling my alma mater's engineering school (and likely other schools as well) now having to artificially maintain a semblance of gender balance by 'putting a thumb on the scale' to ensure men get to attend. View from the STEM perspective.

I have worked in IT for 25 years and your experience is not at all typical. Or at least it's not driving the workforce. More than 80 percent of the resumes I get for junior developers and other entry level positions are from men. For senior positions it's closer to 98 percent male.

I came here to write the exact same thing but PP beat me to it. The overwhelming majority of people I work with in hands-on, hard core tech projects are men. I've can't recall working with more than a handful female developers other than those I hired. Sure, there are women doing front end UX stuff and project management, but the people grinding out code are mostly male in my experience. Of course there ARE female developers working at top companies, but in the markets I work in (government and non-silicon valley business), it's mostly men.

Agree, I'm getting a masters in an IT field and my program is 30% women. The pure computer science program is 20% women. Even I might end up in project management because I like human interaction. Besides Biology/Healthcare, STEM is still majority male.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

It isn’t harder because he is Asian. Give me a freaking break.

data says otherwise.

This thread is about going to college, not going to Yale.

^PP pointed out the person was an Asian male, and they don't typically major in areas that are heavily female. They usually major in highly competitive majors, and so it's harder for them to get in to the college/degree program they want.

If you go by your logic, then any male, white, black, whatever, have an easier time getting into college, period, which bring us back full circle to OP's thread..."why aren't more boys going to college" if it's so easy for them to get in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

It isn’t harder because he is Asian. Give me a freaking break.

data says otherwise.

This thread is about going to college, not going to Yale.

^PP pointed out the person was an Asian male, and they don't typically major in areas that are heavily female. They usually major in highly competitive majors, and so it's harder for them to get in to the college/degree program they want.

If you go by your logic, then any male, white, black, whatever, have an easier time getting into college, period, which bring us back full circle to OP's thread..."why aren't more boys going to college" if it's so easy for them to get in?

which isn't the point of the thread. There are open admission colleges, so the question is why more aren't going not why more aren't getting in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that girls can have ADHD too - but I do think that the numbers of medicated boys these days is staggering and really sad.

You think that based on your appalling ignorance . Please STFU. Parents of kids who have moderate to severe ADHD will tell you that medication has, in many cases, save their kids' lives. ADHD has serious social and emotional consequences for kids, including lots of behaviors that cause their peers and teachers to judge them really negatively, not to mention academic problems. People with untreated ADHD have higher rates of suicide, alcoholsim, and drug abuse.

The anxiety that my SECOND GRADER suffered due to not being able to control his outbursts, to sit still or to focus on school work due to to ADHD were horrible. Low dose medication on school days transformed his interaction with teachers and peers, but more importantly, it totally changed his experience of school. As he got older, taking an even lower dose, short acting med on weekends when he had lots of homework prevented him from spiraling into an anxiety meltdown whenever he had more than 20 minutes of homework. Meds allowed him to focus, start getting some work done and realize that an assignment that his ADHD brain told him would take several days actually would take like a half hour.

DP. I don't think the PP meant to judge the use of medication or suggest that it is unnecessary.

I have two boys with ADHD who struggle in their private middle school (and would undoubtedly fall through the cracks if we moved them to public). I didn’t take PP’s comment about medication as a dig on parents who medicate at all. Instead, I thought it was a comment about our society and educational expectations where boys are made to sit down, stay still and be quiet all day. Recess, PE and sport programs have been cut, homework expectations have risen dramatically. My kids’ math is two years ahead of the math I did in their grades. There are more support programs to encourage girls than boys. However, from a development standpoint, many boys can’t sit still and concentrate for long. They need breaks and opportunities to run around. They need more hands on learning and less worksheets. Teachers tend to favor and reward the nice, quiet girls who sit still and punish the boys who are restless. More and more boys are falling through the crack. And I think the days when men have it made will be over by the time our boys reach working age. I already see my company giving preferences to both hiring female and placing females in leadership position and think this trend will continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

It isn’t harder because he is Asian. Give me a freaking break.

data says otherwise.

This thread is about going to college, not going to Yale.

A public university like UVA discriminates against Asian-Americans based on race. The UC's are desperately trying to get rid of race-blind policies, primarily to get rid of Asian-American students.

So yes, being an Asian male will make it much harder for him, especially in any engineering school. To disagree with this fact is idiotic.

Of course, he could go to ODU instead and get the "same education and same outcomes". Wonder why its not the rural white kids that benefit from this affirmative action that are told to go to ODU instead, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, women in the work force have been disproportionately impacted by losing their jobs. An interesting contradiction.

Not really. There's good evidence that more boys skip college because they anticipate better job opportunities without a college degree. They don't see the need for college in the same way that young women do.

I'm thinking maybe after decades of women whining about how hard it is as a SAHM, more guys are willing to stay at home to do the "hard work" and let their wives do the 9-5

I’m so sorry you weren’t able to take a break from your career and be a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the 504 coordinator, even in schools that support 504s, the actual administration comes down to individual teachers who are human and busy. In our experience, especially in high school with 7-8 different teachers who switch out each semester, most teachers just don’t pay attention or want to take the time to follow the accomodations other than easy to implement ones like preferred seating and extra time. And my kid’s is a “best case scenario” in that he is a good self advocate and I also pay attention and speak up. The reality is that these plans are better on paper than substantively, and your “ivory tower” response reminds me of the ones we get in DS’s annual 504 meeting when it is very clear that the administrators who approve the plan have no idea what the reality in the classroom is. Never evidenced moreso than in distance learning.
-NP

I'm sorry that your child's experience has been difficult, I really am. You are correct that teachers are the ones implementing the accommodations, and there are occasions when I have to follow up with a teacher, sometimes more than one teacher, to remind them about an accommodation or how that accommodation should be followed. As you mentioned, it is very important that students advocate for themselves, and I always ask parents throughout the initial eligibility process and annual reviews to please reach out to me if they have concerns about how their child is being supported. Additionally, I frequently check-in with teachers to see how things are going, and I also check-in with students. You are also correct that DL has created some challenges when it comes to 504 plans. It's difficult to provide some of the accommodations when students aren't in the building, and we are trying to adjust accordingly; but it isn't perfect.

I'm not an administrator, and they don't "approve" the plans in my school. As I mentioned above, it should be a team process, and that includes the parents/guardians. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees all the time, and I know there are a few parents/guardians who have been upset in the past when they feel more accommodations are needed than are included in the plan. This is where data is a helpful and can show what a student needs. For example, when families want extended time on assessments but their child always finishes tests and quizzes and is a straight A student, the data doesn't support that extended time is needed. Accommodations aren't provided for "just in case" scenarios. However, 504 plans can be reviewed at any time, so should the need change, an amendment meeting may be held.

Obviously, I don't know how things are run in your child's school, but if you don't think the plan is being followed, or if you feel that the accommodations are not supporting your child's needs, then you should reach out to the principal or 504 coordinator for the district. 504 plans aren't suggestions, and they aren't optional.

It's fine if you want to keep implying I don't get it. I'll keep doing what I do every day to support my students and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that girls can have ADHD too - but I do think that the numbers of medicated boys these days is staggering and really sad.

You think that based on your appalling ignorance . Please STFU. Parents of kids who have moderate to severe ADHD will tell you that medication has, in many cases, save their kids' lives. ADHD has serious social and emotional consequences for kids, including lots of behaviors that cause their peers and teachers to judge them really negatively, not to mention academic problems. People with untreated ADHD have higher rates of suicide, alcoholsim, and drug abuse.

The anxiety that my SECOND GRADER suffered due to not being able to control his outbursts, to sit still or to focus on school work due to to ADHD were horrible. Low dose medication on school days transformed his interaction with teachers and peers, but more importantly, it totally changed his experience of school. As he got older, taking an even lower dose, short acting med on weekends when he had lots of homework prevented him from spiraling into an anxiety meltdown whenever he had more than 20 minutes of homework. Meds allowed him to focus, start getting some work done and realize that an assignment that his ADHD brain told him would take several days actually would take like a half hour.

DP. I don't think the PP meant to judge the use of medication or suggest that it is unnecessary.

I have two boys with ADHD who struggle in their private middle school (and would undoubtedly fall through the cracks if we moved them to public). I didn’t take PP’s comment about medication as a dig on parents who medicate at all. Instead, I thought it was a comment about our society and educational expectations where boys are made to sit down, stay still and be quiet all day. Recess, PE and sport programs have been cut, homework expectations have risen dramatically. My kids’ math is two years ahead of the math I did in their grades. There are more support programs to encourage girls than boys. However, from a development standpoint, many boys can’t sit still and concentrate for long. They need breaks and opportunities to run around. They need more hands on learning and less worksheets. Teachers tend to favor and reward the nice, quiet girls who sit still and punish the boys who are restless. More and more boys are falling through the crack. And I think the days when men have it made will be over by the time our boys reach working age. I already see my company giving preferences to both hiring female and placing females in leadership position and think this trend will continue.

They can exercise before and after school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

It isn’t harder because he is Asian. Give me a freaking break.

data says otherwise.

This thread is about going to college, not going to Yale.

A public university like UVA discriminates against Asian-Americans based on race. The UC's are desperately trying to get rid of race-blind policies, primarily to get rid of Asian-American students.

So yes, being an Asian male will make it much harder for him, especially in any engineering school. To disagree with this fact is idiotic.

Of course, he could go to ODU instead and get the "same education and same outcomes". Wonder why its not the rural white kids that benefit from this affirmative action that are told to go to ODU instead, though.

Males are struggling with college preparation. Schools like UNC Chapel Hill have already hit 60% female, and the national average is probably going there in the near future. There are simply more females who are prepared for college in stats (particularly GPA) and maturity. But male college graduates still earn significantly more. Females college graduates make only about 74% as much as the males. This may in part be because of the majors they choose (service types of jobs vs. engineering, for instance, which has high relative earnings particularly through mid-career), but that is still a big gap.

Admissions policies tends to favor blacks, then Hispanics, with Asians having to produce the highest average stats. There was an eye opening study about admissions at Virginia public universities recently . W&M and UVA in particular had huge deltas in stats between different ethnic groups. http://ceousa.org/attachments/article/1329/Preferences%20in%20Virginia%20Higher%20Education%20-%20September%202019.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic is speeding up the mass disappearance of men from college
The decline in enrollment has been seven times as steep among men as among women

https://hechingerreport.org/the-pandemic-is-speeding-up-the-mass-disappearance-of-men-from-college/

Implication - it is going to be harder for the girls to get in.

I wonder how much of this is due to Republicans demonizing colleges.

Young males are much more likely to be Republicans than young women.
And the GOP has run a know-nothing campaign to smear universities for decades now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Asian and I have a son with ADHD and a daughter without. I completely reject any notion that boys have it harder overall in their lives. Yes, my son has it terribly hard at school, and yes, it's harder for him to apply to college, because of his race and because of his grades impacted by his ADHD. But male privilege is such that he will be "saved" in his career by being male and given the benefit of the doubt, whereas my daughter, despite great intelligence and functional skills, will always need to prove herself at every rung of the ladder.

So take this recent data in perspective.

It isn’t harder because he is Asian. Give me a freaking break.

data says otherwise.

This thread is about going to college, not going to Yale.

A public university like UVA discriminates against Asian-Americans based on race. The UC's are desperately trying to get rid of race-blind policies, primarily to get rid of Asian-American students.

So yes, being an Asian male will make it much harder for him, especially in any engineering school. To disagree with this fact is idiotic.

Of course, he could go to ODU instead and get the "same education and same outcomes". Wonder why its not the rural white kids that benefit from this affirmative action that are told to go to ODU instead, though.

Males are struggling with college preparation. Schools like UNC Chapel Hill have already hit 60% female, and the national average is probably going there in the near future. There are simply more females who are prepared for college in stats (particularly GPA) and maturity. But male college graduates still earn significantly more. Females college graduates make only about 74% as much as the males. This may in part be because of the majors they choose (service types of jobs vs. engineering, for instance, which has high relative earnings particularly through mid-career), but that is still a big gap.

Admissions policies tends to favor blacks, then Hispanics, with Asians having to produce the highest average stats. There was an eye opening study about admissions at Virginia public universities recently . W&M and UVA in particular had huge deltas in stats between different ethnic groups. http://ceousa.org/attachments/article/1329/Preferences%20in%20Virginia%20Higher%20Education%20-%20September%202019.pdf

CEOUSA is a rightwing thinktank that uses conservative billionaires’ money to push out reports like this to lie to you and me.
Goal is to damage universities since smart people turn away from the Republican Party, and because universities produce scientists that can prevent oil and gas CEOs from profiting off destruction of the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that girls can have ADHD too - but I do think that the numbers of medicated boys these days is staggering and really sad.

You think that based on your appalling ignorance . Please STFU. Parents of kids who have moderate to severe ADHD will tell you that medication has, in many cases, save their kids' lives. ADHD has serious social and emotional consequences for kids, including lots of behaviors that cause their peers and teachers to judge them really negatively, not to mention academic problems. People with untreated ADHD have higher rates of suicide, alcoholsim, and drug abuse.

The anxiety that my SECOND GRADER suffered due to not being able to control his outbursts, to sit still or to focus on school work due to to ADHD were horrible. Low dose medication on school days transformed his interaction with teachers and peers, but more importantly, it totally changed his experience of school. As he got older, taking an even lower dose, short acting med on weekends when he had lots of homework prevented him from spiraling into an anxiety meltdown whenever he had more than 20 minutes of homework. Meds allowed him to focus, start getting some work done and realize that an assignment that his ADHD brain told him would take several days actually would take like a half hour.

DP. I don't think the PP meant to judge the use of medication or suggest that it is unnecessary.

I have two boys with ADHD who struggle in their private middle school (and would undoubtedly fall through the cracks if we moved them to public). I didn’t take PP’s comment about medication as a dig on parents who medicate at all. Instead, I thought it was a comment about our society and educational expectations where boys are made to sit down, stay still and be quiet all day. Recess, PE and sport programs have been cut, homework expectations have risen dramatically. My kids’ math is two years ahead of the math I did in their grades. There are more support programs to encourage girls than boys. However, from a development standpoint, many boys can’t sit still and concentrate for long. They need breaks and opportunities to run around. They need more hands on learning and less worksheets. Teachers tend to favor and reward the nice, quiet girls who sit still and punish the boys who are restless. More and more boys are falling through the crack. And I think the days when men have it made will be over by the time our boys reach working age. I already see my company giving preferences to both hiring female and placing females in leadership position and think this trend will continue.

Yes - 100%

ES Administrator

[Anonymous]

"CEOUSA is a rightwing thinktank that uses conservative billionaires’ money to push out reports like this to lie to you and me. "

Are the statistics falsified?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet, women in the work force have been disproportionately impacted by losing their jobs. An interesting contradiction.

It isn't a contradiction. It is consistent.