Question for Michigan residents - how do in-state people view the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

[Anonymous]

I am from Michigan and the idea that anyone in the state (besides PP, I guess) would place Albion on the same level as UMich or above MSU or that MSU is on par with Detroit Mercy or that Indiana or Miami of OH are more desirable than MSU is just not realistic.

UMich is the academic “big dog” in the state, no question, with highly ranked programs in pretty much every academic discipline. MSU is not a bad school by any means but falls more into the “typical large state school” category than does UMich. While UMich grads tend to be ambitious go-getters and peel off to Chicago, NY, DC, SF, etc. Michigan State people stay in-state after graduation at MUCH higher levels and dominate the professional job market in metros like Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Detroit (ish). Whoever said that MSU grads run the state is spot on. Also MSU seems to be more popular for majors like nursing and teaching.

Kalamazoo is a great school but tends to attract a certain type of student — studious, quirky, academic, intellectual. Historically has been of the biggest PhD feeder schools in the US.

Hillsdale has a national draw but only for super ideologically conservative types. I think kids there are actually very studious, but it’s got a VERY distinct culture that is not appealing to many. Attracts a very certain type of student, even more so than Kalamazoo.

Grand Valley State and Western Michigan aren’t bad schools at all, although not super selective. Of the state directionals I’d say these two are best. The rest of the state directionals range from unremarkable to downright bad. (Actually Wayne State is improving and some kids just really want that urban environment in Detroit.)

Michigan Tech - awesome engineering school, lots of males, location is a major turnoff for many.

At public high schools, Michigan does not really have the culture of going crazy over “top 20s”/private colleges like this area does. At the tippy top you’ll have kids going to Ivies (and Notre Dame, if you're at a Catholic HS) but you just don’t see the number of kids applying/attending schools like Emory, Tufts, Lehigh, Boston College, USC etc. like you do around here (of course, part of it is geography). Schools like Marquette, Loyola, and Dayton are popular among the Catholic HS crowd (which is definitely a thing in metro Detroit).

Albion, Alma, Adrian - meh. Not really on the radar screen for most kids.


That’s my take — any other Michiganders, feel free to contest I’m probably forgetting some.

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree more, I was the prior poster who said MSU runs the state. Part of that is sheer numbers as it is huge and takes in a zillion kids. We are from a Detroit suburb and every douchy frat bro type and mean girl in DC's HS went to MSU. Grand Valley is up and coming because of all the money being thrown into it, but totally different vibe vs. a Big 10 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am from Michigan and the idea that anyone in the state (besides PP, I guess) would place Albion on the same level as UMich or above MSU or that MSU is on par with Detroit Mercy or that Indiana or Miami of OH are more desirable than MSU is just not realistic.

UMich is the academic “big dog” in the state, no question, with highly ranked programs in pretty much every academic discipline. MSU is not a bad school by any means but falls more into the “typical large state school” category than does UMich. While UMich grads tend to be ambitious go-getters and peel off to Chicago, NY, DC, SF, etc. Michigan State people stay in-state after graduation at MUCH higher levels and dominate the professional job market in metros like Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Detroit (ish). Whoever said that MSU grads run the state is spot on. Also MSU seems to be more popular for majors like nursing and teaching.

Kalamazoo is a great school but tends to attract a certain type of student — studious, quirky, academic, intellectual. Historically has been of the biggest PhD feeder schools in the US.

Hillsdale has a national draw but only for super ideologically conservative types. I think kids there are actually very studious, but it’s got a VERY distinct culture that is not appealing to many. Attracts a very certain type of student, even more so than Kalamazoo.

Grand Valley State and Western Michigan aren’t bad schools at all, although not super selective. Of the state directionals I’d say these two are best. The rest of the state directionals range from unremarkable to downright bad. (Actually Wayne State is improving and some kids just really want that urban environment in Detroit.)

Michigan Tech - awesome engineering school, lots of males, location is a major turnoff for many.

At public high schools, Michigan does not really have the culture of going crazy over “top 20s”/private colleges like this area does. At the tippy top you’ll have kids going to Ivies (and Notre Dame, if you're at a Catholic HS) but you just don’t see the number of kids applying/attending schools like Emory, Tufts, Lehigh, Boston College, USC etc. like you do around here (of course, part of it is geography). Schools like Marquette, Loyola, and Dayton are popular among the Catholic HS crowd (which is definitely a thing in metro Detroit).

Albion, Alma, Adrian - meh. Not really on the radar screen for most kids.


That’s my take — any other Michiganders, feel free to contest I’m probably forgetting some.

+1 This is the most knowledgeable of Michigan colleges post in this thread in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MSU also has some type of scholarship program that is similar to but smaller than the Michigan Honors Program but comes with a lot of money. Some really top notch students choose MSU over Michigan for that reason as well.

It's so obvious you're MSU alum from college confidential with 100k posts.

That's hilarious. I went to Michigan, actually, and I can make fun of Little Brother (Moo U) just like any other proud Wolverine. But the truth is that MSU is a great college and does attract some kids who would have done very well at Michigan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To in-state private school families, it generally goes like this below. Many families with high stat kids choose private tier 2s over huge Michigan for undergrad studies. Paying out-of-state tuition at Indiana is a way to flaunt your family money over sending your average stats kid to Michigan State.

Tier 1: Notre Dame, Northwestern, Duke, USC, Ivies
Tier 2: Michigan, Kalamazoo, Hillsdale, Albion
Tier 3: Indiana, Hope, Miami-OH, Dayton, Loyola-Chicago
Tier 4: Michigan State, U of Detroit-Mercy
Tier 5: the rest, as all the rest are basically open admit

Do you rate Albion above Alma? How about Adrian? Olivet?

Hillsdale I can see. It has a national rep, drawing 2/3ds of its students from out-of-state. Kids actually work hard there. Lots of required courses. Tuition is kept low, because students can't use taxpayer-subsidized loans to pay their tuition.

UM-Ann Arbor pads its coffers by drawing upwards of half its student body from out-of-state (and these out-of-staters pay big bucks to attend a sports-obsessed factory).

Indiana and Miami University fit the movie ideal of the perfect campus setting.

Isn't Kalamazoo a hippie school?

Who wants to freeze his ass off at MSU?

Why go to Detroit-Mercy when Wayne State is available? And Wayne State is closer to the DIA.

You can sort of tease out LAC health and status via endowment: Hillsdale is over $500M. Albion is around or over $200M, ditto Kalamazoo and Hope. The other LACs in Michigan are pretty broke and at risk of closure when it's predicted a wave of LACs across the nation go under within the next 10 years.

As for why Hillsdale, Albion, Kalamazoo and even Hope over MSU and even University of Michigan? Michigan isn't for everyone, especially for undergrad studies. It's gigantic, has a party school rep, so much red tape, huge bureaucracy, and sports obsession turns people away. Also, private school families tend to prefer their kids attend private colleges.

Also, in case you all missed it, Michigan State has been in the news for like 5 years now for hiding sexual assaults with the school doctor and football and basketball players. Title 9 violations. Nearly a $1 billion judgment against the school. Their financial situation can't be good at moment. They've opened up admissions to anyone in order to pay off the $600M bond they had to take out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MSU also has some type of scholarship program that is similar to but smaller than the Michigan Honors Program but comes with a lot of money. Some really top notch students choose MSU over Michigan for that reason as well.

It's so obvious you're MSU alum from college confidential with 100k posts.

That's hilarious. I went to Michigan, actually, and I can make fun of Little Brother (Moo U) just like any other proud Wolverine. But the truth is that MSU is a great college and does attract some kids who would have done very well at Michigan.

Not in any significant volume. Cross-admit data indicates over 90% who get into both choose the state flagship. Practically none of the competitive out of state applicants to Michigan even waste time applying to MSU.

And MSU is broke. Their scholarships are few and far. UM is far wealthier, so the "scholarships" and financial aid offers are 10x more generous.

[Anonymous]

If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.

It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.



It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

Hillsdale students are studious and work hard, but it's got a very narrow conservative bent and produces a whole lot of econ majors who think in one narrow way. It's not a bad school, and I think a conservative school is important for those seeking that environment. But that's its main claim--which has attracted it a bit more money and reputation than the quality of its faculty. Kalamazoo is stronger among MI LAC schools in my opinion--the highest PhD producers in the natural sciences in the state, and in the top 50 in the country. All students demonstrate must demonstrate competency in a foreign language and nearly all study abroad and do internships. But both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are above the others listed in terms of strong comprehensive education. If they were two states eastward they would be far more popular and highly ranked than they currently are nationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.



It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

Hillsdale students are studious and work hard, but it's got a very narrow conservative bent and produces a whole lot of econ majors who think in one narrow way. It's not a bad school, and I think a conservative school is important for those seeking that environment. But that's its main claim--which has attracted it a bit more money and reputation than the quality of its faculty. Kalamazoo is stronger among MI LAC schools in my opinion--the highest PhD producers in the natural sciences in the state, and in the top 50 in the country. All students demonstrate must demonstrate competency in a foreign language and nearly all study abroad and do internships. But both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are above the others listed in terms of strong comprehensive education. If they were two states eastward they would be far more popular and highly ranked than they currently are nationally.

I believe both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are profiled in the book "Colleges that Change Lives."

One interesting aspect to the supposed "conservative bent" of Hillsdale College: when it was founded in the 1840s it was considered a radical place. Now it's considered a conservative place. But, as a factual matter, it's been doing the same thing all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.



It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

Hillsdale students are studious and work hard, but it's got a very narrow conservative bent and produces a whole lot of econ majors who think in one narrow way. It's not a bad school, and I think a conservative school is important for those seeking that environment. But that's its main claim--which has attracted it a bit more money and reputation than the quality of its faculty. Kalamazoo is stronger among MI LAC schools in my opinion--the highest PhD producers in the natural sciences in the state, and in the top 50 in the country. All students demonstrate must demonstrate competency in a foreign language and nearly all study abroad and do internships. But both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are above the others listed in terms of strong comprehensive education. If they were two states eastward they would be far more popular and highly ranked than they currently are nationally.

I believe both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are profiled in the book "Colleges that Change Lives."

One interesting aspect to the supposed "conservative bent" of Hillsdale College: when it was founded in the 1840s it was considered a radical place. Now it's considered a conservative place. But, as a factual matter, it's been doing the same thing all along.

I hope not. That would be really problematic to be doing the same education since the 1840s! Those students really aren't ready for the world then.

[Anonymous]

U of M grad here. Will offer a reason why some go to Hillsdale, Albion, etc. — scholarships. I got a free ride to several of them because I was a top student athlete. I turned them down much to my parents’ chagrin because I wanted to go to a DiV 1 school that had a brand name outside of Michigan. I was only offered walk on at Mich, no $. I don’t regret it, though. I left Michigan (the school and the state) when I was 21 and haven’t looked back. I love both the school and the state, btw, but I wanted to head East.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.



It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

Hillsdale students are studious and work hard, but it's got a very narrow conservative bent and produces a whole lot of econ majors who think in one narrow way. It's not a bad school, and I think a conservative school is important for those seeking that environment. But that's its main claim--which has attracted it a bit more money and reputation than the quality of its faculty. Kalamazoo is stronger among MI LAC schools in my opinion--the highest PhD producers in the natural sciences in the state, and in the top 50 in the country. All students demonstrate must demonstrate competency in a foreign language and nearly all study abroad and do internships. But both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are above the others listed in terms of strong comprehensive education. If they were two states eastward they would be far more popular and highly ranked than they currently are nationally.

I believe both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are profiled in the book "Colleges that Change Lives."

One interesting aspect to the supposed "conservative bent" of Hillsdale College: when it was founded in the 1840s it was considered a radical place. Now it's considered a conservative place. But, as a factual matter, it's been doing the same thing all along.

I hope not. That would be really problematic to be doing the same education since the 1840s! Those students really aren't ready for the world then.

Some things are timeless. Like the laws of nature and nature' God. Like the liberal arts. Hillsdale's articles of incorporation cite the inestimable blessings of civil and religious liberty. And Hillsdale believes that sound learning is necessary to the perpetuation of those blessings.

You may think differently. But you may not have had the benefit of a sound education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to attend an LAC in Michigan, Hillsdale is the best -- both in terms of its financials and its academics.

But you have to be willing to take a lot of required courses, and the coursework is very demanding. Grading is tough. A straight A student is a rarity.

Some kids won't want to take the science courses in Hillsdale's core, but biology, chemistry, and physics are all required.

And some kids will think that some of the courses are out of fashion -- e.g., the required survey courses in Western civilization, and American history. (Few colleges in America offer these courses anymore -- even as electives.)

Plus there are courses in political economy, and logic. And a two-semester sequence in the great works of Western literature.

Also the required political theory course on the U.S. Constitution.



It's not for everyone. But the school is prospering, and for the 1500 who embrace the challenge of a true liberal arts education, it's a life-altering, character-building and spiritually-uplifting experience.

Hillsdale students are studious and work hard, but it's got a very narrow conservative bent and produces a whole lot of econ majors who think in one narrow way. It's not a bad school, and I think a conservative school is important for those seeking that environment. But that's its main claim--which has attracted it a bit more money and reputation than the quality of its faculty. Kalamazoo is stronger among MI LAC schools in my opinion--the highest PhD producers in the natural sciences in the state, and in the top 50 in the country. All students demonstrate must demonstrate competency in a foreign language and nearly all study abroad and do internships. But both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are above the others listed in terms of strong comprehensive education. If they were two states eastward they would be far more popular and highly ranked than they currently are nationally.

I believe both Hillsdale and Kalamazoo are profiled in the book "Colleges that Change Lives."

One interesting aspect to the supposed "conservative bent" of Hillsdale College: when it was founded in the 1840s it was considered a radical place. Now it's considered a conservative place. But, as a factual matter, it's been doing the same thing all along.

I hope not. That would be really problematic to be doing the same education since the 1840s! Those students really aren't ready for the world then.

Some things are timeless. Like the laws of nature and nature' God. Like the liberal arts. Hillsdale's articles of incorporation cite the inestimable blessings of civil and religious liberty. And Hillsdale believes that sound learning is necessary to the perpetuation of those blessings.

You may think differently. But you may not have had the benefit of a sound education.

Well, that’s just creepy.

[Anonymous]

Funny, re Hillsdale. This is a targeted ad that just showed up in my Facebook newsfeed: https://lp.hillsdale.edu/2019-national-survey-on-socialism/

This is just plain scary coming from an institution of higher education — seems more like a Breitbart publication. It’s like the people who created this and approved this has never taken an introductory course on research methodology. Leading questions. Non-exhaustive response options. Biased framing. Yikes! If this the type of content your institution of “sound education” produces, I can take nothing else you say seriously. (To 18:44).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny, re Hillsdale. This is a targeted ad that just showed up in my Facebook newsfeed: https://lp.hillsdale.edu/2019-national-survey-on-socialism/

This is just plain scary coming from an institution of higher education — seems more like a Breitbart publication. It’s like the people who created this and approved this has never taken an introductory course on research methodology. Leading questions. Non-exhaustive response options. Biased framing. Yikes! If this the type of content your institution of “sound education” produces, I can take nothing else you say seriously. (To 18:44).

Holy shit! I teach AP Government to 10th and 11th graders and am always looking for examples of garbage surveys when we get to the topics on political surveying and public opinion. Bookmarking this one for sure.