What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from having a racist and discriminatory history and policies? Apart from slave labour? But, let's name a hall after a former slave and all if good now? I think not.

Take a deep breath. It’s going to be okay.

Yes, and this isn’t England, Canada, or some other land over which Britain had lengthy dominion: it’s “labor” and not “labour.”

Is it now? I did that on purpose to find the American sleeping dcum police! And I did!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apart from having a racist and discriminatory history and policies? Apart from slave labour? But, let's name a hall after a former slave and all if good now? I think not.

All of the older, east coast schools have a historical connection to slavery, notably Harvard and Yale and Georgetown. Read this: https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/09/04/shackled-legacy

[Anonymous]

None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

If that’s true, then, yes, it’s a big problem for W&M. Too much, ‘we love being nerds’ babble. Turns off a lot of nova students. Back in my day, well rounded kids also had W&M on their list. The common denominator—except for Emory, whose presence on your list I don’t really understand—is higher profile, with better known sports teams (excluding Georgetown football).

[Anonymous]

us news emphasis on pell grants and taking the guidance counselor rating out of the mix hurt William and Mary. The existential issue is whether it continues to plummet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

Guess that’s why VT was overenrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my dd’s three friends who are freshmen there, it’s boring. Nothing to do on weekends, nowhere to go, even the Greek and party scene is dying.

It's a school for serious students. This is how it is supposed to be. It's a good fit for certain students.

And the limited greek life is why it it is DD's first choice. (applying ED2 if she can get it done in the next couple of days).

I thought Greek participation was about thirty percent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

Quite a difference in price for those privates. And not everyone in NOVA and OOS gets accepted at UVA. Some people actually turn down UVA. It happens! For business or pre professional I think student is better off at W&M than Vtech. I don’t see any real nerds in the DC friend group. Just a small sample

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

Odd I thought it was in an upward spiral. Just got a huge grant. Lots of OOS students. But it’s not UVA and never will be. Good and bad sides of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

Odd I thought it was in an upward spiral. Just got a huge grant. Lots of OOS students. But it’s not UVA and never will be. Good and bad sides of that. [/quote

Thomas Jefferson attended William and Mary and was like, Been there done that, now I’m going to found UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

If that’s true, then, yes, it’s a big problem for W&M. Too much, ‘we love being nerds’ babble. Turns off a lot of nova students. Back in my day, well rounded kids also had W&M on their list. The common denominator—except for Emory, whose presence on your list I don’t really understand—is higher profile, with better known sports teams (excluding Georgetown football).

When we visited W&M, the Assistant Dean who spoke to our group said W&M is too small a community to accept students who are academically successful with no apparent outside interests. She said the admissions committee is looking for successful students who have made contributions to their community at home. The kids who have been accepted from our school over the years are student council members, active (non-prize winning) Science Olympiad club members, musicians, theater participants, involved in sports (not at a recruitment level), yearbook, and probably lots more than that. My kid loved W&M immediately and was really excited to be accepted ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the high achieving, well rounded kids at my DC's school are interested in William & Mary. It seems to attract a certain "type"--which tends to be an academic-only (fewer ECs, no sports) student who would be a fit at certain SLACs, but chooses W&M because of lower in-state tuition.

The high achieving, well rounded kids seem much more interested in UVA, with VT as a safety school. Then looking at privates like Georgetown, Duke, Emory, and Vandy.

Guess that’s why VT was overenrolled.

VT was overenrolled because admissions and enrollment management didn't use the right yield models. They ignored a faculty member who ran a model and told them the consultants' model was going to result in overenrollment.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/education/virginia-tech-pushing-capacity-after-admitting-larger-than-anticipated-freshman/article_6e490329-20c5-5ac9-9d23-b12dac164aa0.html

According to a letter sent by engineering education professor Marie Paretti to fellow members of the Tech Faculty Senate, the university should’ve seen the numbers coming.

“Frankly, it is unacceptable to me to hear anyone in the administration suggest that these numbers are unexpected,” she wrote.

She wrote that a colleague in the College of Engineering had predicted more than 2,600 new freshmen, an oversized class for that college, based on the numbers from the university and shared that with administrators. The prediction was ignored, she wrote.

She wrote that the increase in students would create unnecessary strain on Blacksburg.

“As the Faculty Senate, I believe we need to hold the administration accountable not only for the over-enrollment itself, but for the persistent disregard of faculty and staff on the ground who saw this coming and tried repeatedly to raise concerns and be proactive,” she wrote.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread is just absurd. William and Mary provides the best undergraduate education in the liberal arts and sciences of any public institution in the country. It exists first and foremost for undergraduates and always has and always will. It's really old and really hard. If you don't want to work, if you want to party and follow big time college sports go elsewhere. Sadly, many young people today will do this and get a degree, but not an education.

It is in a class by itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is just absurd. William and Mary provides the best undergraduate education in the liberal arts and sciences of any public institution in the country. It exists first and foremost for undergraduates and always has and always will. It's really old and really hard. If you don't want to work, if you want to party and follow big time college sports go elsewhere. Sadly, many young people today will do this and get a degree, but not an education.

It is in a class by itself.

But that's not the point of this thread. The point is that students are less interested in attending W&M today. And key metrics are in decline, including applications, acceptance rate, rank, yield, etc. So the OP was wondering what was driving that. Several posters have weighed in that there is a problem with the culture and brand of the school. If "it's really old and really hard" is going to be the school's mantra, then it can expect the slide to continue.

In my opinion, they need to embrace the history and academic rigor, but then add to the experience with additional school spirit, community, and a sense of adventure. But those additional things are not apparent to most who visit and consider the school.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think W&M has any real problem. Some metrics may be. Indicating something who knows but top students are applying and attending, new buildings new programs upward trend in ranking and so on. But if you don’t like it don’t go there. No ones forcing you.