Your experience with a 40% FARMS rate Middle School

[Anonymous]

The average age for a Hispanic is 11 in the USA. For a white personal

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm also a HoCo parent, and I live in a neighborhood close to yours, with a high-performing elementary school and a 40% FARMS middle school. We debated whether to buy a house in this neighborhood because of our concerns about the middle school but were ultimately persuaded to do so primarily because parents who actually had kids in the MS spoke so highly of it. Several years later, our older son is a student at that MS and both he and we are happy with it. Our main concern was that there would be a lot of disruption in the classrooms (our son is not in G/T), but, in general, there tend to be only one or two disruptive kids per class and those kids are not necessarily low income. The MS has excellent, experienced teachers and administrators, who know how to deal with a diverse student body. I don't think bullying is tolerated at this school, and the student body in general is, I think, no meaner than at schools with lots of wealthy kids.

In terms of the things that are not great, there are probably more apathetic students who don't do homework and don't participate in class than you would find in a high-SES school. My impression is that there is some friction between the low-SES and higher-SES kids, which principally takes the form of name-calling. There are more fights than I think you would find at a high-SES school, although the fights are almost entirely between lower-income students, and I have never heard of a student from my son's old elementary school being involved in a fight. Even in non-G/T classes, low-SES and higher-SES students tend to self-segregate, and I suspect your son would continue to socialize pretty much exclusively with the kids from his neighborhood.

If your neighborhood does get redistricted, which I think is actually pretty unlikely, I would suggest that you talk to parents at the new middle school to get their opinions and consider giving the new school a try. We were prepared to put our son in private school if need be, but we've been pleasantly surprised. My advice might be different if the proposal was only to redistrict a few kids rather than a couple hundred, or if we were talking about a high school redistricting. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

For a white person it is 58.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids went to a high FARMS % school in Montgomery County and there were a ton of benefits, like smaller class sizes and additional resources, as a result. I also appreciated the diversity of the community and the different ways in which families chose to support the school.

maybe for ES but not for MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Real answer as long as there is tracking it won't be an issue and I'm assuming most DCUM folks have smart kids

A foolish assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: In my opinion, ESOL kids are generally very hard working, nice kids.

This is not at all our experience in a MoCo ES that has a heavy split of reasonably affluent whites/Asians and Farms ESOL/AA. The farms kids are frequently off task and disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This gets proven over and over. MCPS has been trying to do this with the Magnet programs and CES programs in ES being placed in lower-performing schools. It’s been tried in other areas as well and it rarely does anything to close the achievement gap.

I want to push back on this specifically, as a parent who has had kids in CES programs and the TPMS middle school magnet.

At the CES level (my kids were at Pine Crest), I would not expect the presence of the CES to have any benefit to the home school, since the kids never mingle. It is a school within a school. Now, I think Pine Crest is a fine school, but the presence of absence of a CES program does nothing for the kids at that school who are not in the program.

At TPMS, there is more "mingling" between magnet and home school kids in the classes that are not magnet courses, but there is nothing wrong with TPMS without the magnet. My experience has been that the school is well-run, and that the "mixed" classes are just fine. That is, I don't think my magnet child is doing anything to "help" TPMS because it is a great school with or without my magnet kid.

That is because TPMS drew its boundaries to avoid the poorest parts of Takoma Park. Completely accidental I am sure, or maybe another example of hypocrisy

TPMS has a 30 percent FARMS rate, which is not nothing. The point is that PP said the CES and magnet programs were "proof" that economic integration doesn't help poor kids. My argument was that the CES programs wouldn't be expected to "help" kids outside the program, because it isn't integration. It's a school within a school. At the middle school level, TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the high SES kids bussed in for the magnet program. These are both terrible examples of "why economic integration doesn't work," which is the point PP was apparently trying to make.

DP - Do you have any data to support the assertion that TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the magnet program?

One could make a case that it was the magnet program that made TPMS a "perfectly fine school". You might want to read the metis report that provides the history behind these programs: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf. As per the report, TPMS magnet is one of the programs that were developed to prevent white flight and maintain racial diversity. It seems the program (with the 25 seat quota in the magnet program reserved for local students) has done the job very well.

For the poster who made the point about the boundaries of TPMS, are you sure you don't have the cause and effect reversed? Is it possible the strategy MCPS used 50 years ago did not work with Eastern (no home school quota in the magnet program) but worked with TPMS?

[Anonymous]

I think the example of TPMS is complicated because in recent years Takoma Park in general has become a pretty desirable place to live. Home values have increased quite a bit, but anecdotally most families I know there can't afford multiple kids in private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did and it was an abject disaster. Had to go private in 7th. Dont let your guilt destroy your kids’ education. There’s a reason why parents dont want to send their kids to school with the poors: bc they have “poor” habits which your kid will either pick up or will interfere with ur kid’s learning. 6th was a complete loss for my kid, would have been better off staying at home watchimg tv.

This

[Anonymous]

That is because TPMS drew its boundaries to avoid the poorest parts of Takoma Park. Completely accidental I am sure, or maybe another example of hypocrisy


TPMS has a 30 percent FARMS rate, which is not nothing. The point is that PP said the CES and magnet programs were "proof" that economic integration doesn't help poor kids. My argument was that the CES programs wouldn't be expected to "help" kids outside the program, because it isn't integration. It's a school within a school. At the middle school level, TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the high SES kids bussed in for the magnet program. These are both terrible examples of "why economic integration doesn't work," which is the point PP was apparently trying to make.


DP - Do you have any data to support the assertion that TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the magnet program?

One could make a case that it was the magnet program that made TPMS a "perfectly fine school". You might want to read the metis report that provides the history behind these programs: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf. As per the report, TPMS magnet is one of the programs that were developed to prevent white flight and maintain racial diversity. It seems the program (with the 25 seat quota in the magnet program reserved for local students) has done the job very well.

For the poster who made the point about the boundaries of TPMS, are you sure you don't have the cause and effect reversed? Is it possible the strategy MCPS used 50 years ago did not work with Eastern (no home school quota in the magnet program) but worked with TPMS?

Low income kids do not do any better for TPMS so from this perspective the magnet program is a failure. Did it attract wealthy white and asian kids from the west and prop up the school's scores? Yes. Did it help to attract some not as wealthy but still wealthy whites to move into the area and hope to get one of the easier to get in set aside spots? Sure. Did any of this actually raise the performance of the low income AA and hispanic students? No it did not.

Its optics only. School admins like it because it covers up the failures for the low income kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That is because TPMS drew its boundaries to avoid the poorest parts of Takoma Park. Completely accidental I am sure, or maybe another example of hypocrisy


TPMS has a 30 percent FARMS rate, which is not nothing. The point is that PP said the CES and magnet programs were "proof" that economic integration doesn't help poor kids. My argument was that the CES programs wouldn't be expected to "help" kids outside the program, because it isn't integration. It's a school within a school. At the middle school level, TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the high SES kids bussed in for the magnet program. These are both terrible examples of "why economic integration doesn't work," which is the point PP was apparently trying to make.


DP - Do you have any data to support the assertion that TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the magnet program?

One could make a case that it was the magnet program that made TPMS a "perfectly fine school". You might want to read the metis report that provides the history behind these programs: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf. As per the report, TPMS magnet is one of the programs that were developed to prevent white flight and maintain racial diversity. It seems the program (with the 25 seat quota in the magnet program reserved for local students) has done the job very well.

For the poster who made the point about the boundaries of TPMS, are you sure you don't have the cause and effect reversed? Is it possible the strategy MCPS used 50 years ago did not work with Eastern (no home school quota in the magnet program) but worked with TPMS?

Low income kids do not do any better for TPMS so from this perspective the magnet program is a failure. Did it attract wealthy white and asian kids from the west and prop up the school's scores? Yes. Did it help to attract some not as wealthy but still wealthy whites to move into the area and hope to get one of the easier to get in set aside spots? Sure. Did any of this actually raise the performance of the low income AA and hispanic students? No it did not.

Its optics only. School admins like it because it covers up the failures for the low income kids.

This.

And this is why they can redraw boundaries all they want, but it will not close the Achievement Gap. Huge waste of time and money and energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is because TPMS drew its boundaries to avoid the poorest parts of Takoma Park. Completely accidental I am sure, or maybe another example of hypocrisy


TPMS has a 30 percent FARMS rate, which is not nothing. The point is that PP said the CES and magnet programs were "proof" that economic integration doesn't help poor kids. My argument was that the CES programs wouldn't be expected to "help" kids outside the program, because it isn't integration. It's a school within a school. At the middle school level, TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the high SES kids bussed in for the magnet program. These are both terrible examples of "why economic integration doesn't work," which is the point PP was apparently trying to make.


DP - Do you have any data to support the assertion that TPMS is a perfectly fine school with or without the magnet program?

One could make a case that it was the magnet program that made TPMS a "perfectly fine school". You might want to read the metis report that provides the history behind these programs: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf. As per the report, TPMS magnet is one of the programs that were developed to prevent white flight and maintain racial diversity. It seems the program (with the 25 seat quota in the magnet program reserved for local students) has done the job very well.

For the poster who made the point about the boundaries of TPMS, are you sure you don't have the cause and effect reversed? Is it possible the strategy MCPS used 50 years ago did not work with Eastern (no home school quota in the magnet program) but worked with TPMS?

Low income kids do not do any better for TPMS so from this perspective the magnet program is a failure. Did it attract wealthy white and asian kids from the west and prop up the school's scores? Yes. Did it help to attract some not as wealthy but still wealthy whites to move into the area and hope to get one of the easier to get in set aside spots? Sure. Did any of this actually raise the performance of the low income AA and hispanic students? No it did not.

Its optics only. School admins like it because it covers up the failures for the low income kids.

This.

And this is why they can redraw boundaries all they want, but it will not close the Achievement Gap. Huge waste of time and money and energy.

Not to mention there will still be poor minority schools no matter how you draw it. How will lowering the high test score schools help those left behind ?

[Anonymous]

OP, ignore the posters who don't have personal experience with high FARMs.

There are pros and cons. The upside is that the schools are better resourced. If you have an advanced student, it's hard to find a better deal in public schools than a high FARMs school.

The cons are largely behavioral and cultural. Your child will be more exposed to downwardly mobile thinking. If you're prepared to counter it, it's fine and can actually add nuance to their perspective about poverty.

A big pro is that students in high FARMs are statistically less likely to engage in drug use or drinking. Your kid will generally be less exposed to a culture that encourages and enables things like addiction, eating disorders, etc-- in other words, your kid is less likely to "catch" the diseases of the UMC. Someone will demand a link so here it is, Professor DCUM. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/many-teens-drink-rich-ones-like-kavanaugh-are-more-likely-to-abuse-alcohol/2018/09/28/6bb641aa-c27c-11e8-97a5-ab1e46bb3bc7_story.html

If your kid struggles academically and romanticizes criminal activity, it's best to keep them out of high FARMs schools. If you've got a bright kid who knows right from wrong, it's a good experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Howard county is currently being redistricted and the latest proposal moves 200 kids from one of the best middle schools( the one we will go in a few years) to the one with the highest FARM rate. The present FARM rate of this school is 52% and the target after redistricting will probably be 40%. The PAARC scores for this school hover in the 20 and 30 percents.

Now the usual cries of not wanting our kids to go t those schools, crime, home values are doing the rounds and I'm not claiming to be above those. But in all honesty, I didn't go to school here and I'm trying to understand what our experience there might be like. We are currently in a < 5% FARMS rate elementary. middle and high school pyramid. I feel some of the hesitancy, including my own, might be people not really knowing what the new school is like.

I am truly trying to have an open mind and trying to understand what my kids would lose by going here. I don't believe 3 years of middle school make or break your life. Does this truly give my otherwise v protected kids a window into the world that's out there or is peer pressure and the price of poor choices too high in middle school. If your kids attended such a middle school coming from an elementary school like described, what was your experience and the pros and cons of this.

OP, I thought about you last night and your concern. I recommend that you join the Facebook Group "Howard County School Redistricting Opposition". https://www.facebook.com/groups/2481593048731404/

Group members are organizing a protest on September 14th. Go here for more information https://scotteblog.com/2019/08/31/walk-the-mall-protest-of-the-current-hcpss-redistricting-plan-scheduled-for-september-14th/

People who reside in Howard County that want to get their voices heard are welcome to join the Howard County School Redistricting Opposition group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, I thought about you last night and your concern. I recommend that you join the Facebook Group "Howard County School Redistricting Opposition". https://www.facebook.com/groups/2481593048731404/

Group members are organizing a protest on September 14th. Go here for more information https://scotteblog.com/2019/08/31/walk-the-mall-protest-of-the-current-hcpss-redistricting-plan-scheduled-for-september-14th/

People who reside in Howard County that want to get their voices heard are welcome to join the Howard County School Redistricting Opposition group.

What about people who reside in Howard County who want to get their voices heard who support the proposed boundary changes?